Is ASP ready for prime-time? Tiling & other issues.

ferdinand-paris · Post by **ferdinand-paris** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:11 am

After putting a lot of effort into porting my Bez plugin to ASP, I was planning on shifting across to it for processing all new images shot from 1 Jan 2012. A clean break given that B5 & ASP settings don't mix well together, despite the efforts of some plugin writers. However,there are a number of what I regard as serious issues that are preventing me from doing so. So I'm still using B5 for production work. My question is, how many people are using ASP for serious stuff? Not all the bugs I'm referring to seem to have got an airing on this forum, so here are the relevant links to them on the B5 forums:

1. Rotation Artefacts
http://support.bibblelabs.com/forums/vi ... 67&t=19694

2. CA Correction Artefacts
http://support.bibblelabs.com/forums/vi ... 67&t=19802

3. HR Issues
http://support.bibblelabs.com/forums/vi ... 67&t=19789
(HR has been a long running issue with some cameras, but I gather it's worse in ASP, but I also gather the beta testers have a version that fixes this.)

4. Sharpening Issues
http://support.bibblelabs.com/forums/vi ... 64&t=19719
It is possible to use Wavelet sharpen, but built-in sharpening is fairly easy and convenient.

5. Auto Contrast / Auto Levels broken
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=45264
I personally don't regard this as a show-stopper, as you can make manual adjustments, but it is something that seems to have gone "bang!' in the B5->ASP move.

6. Dots in rotated image with gradient-style layer
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=45303
I suspect this is at least partly related to #1 about rotation.

7. DEL and INS key operating on the wrong files / versions
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=45308 and http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php ... 46#p240446
I can't replicate these, but there are several reports and they are serious.

#1 & #2 are the worst for me personally, and esp #1. I regard artefacts like these as serious. It's not inconceivable that someone could deliver an image to a client not noticing the artefacts, only for the client to do so. Sure, you can rotate images outside of ASP, but it's just easier to for Nikon users to stick with B5 for the time being. Does anyone else agree? It's less easy for Canon users because of the much better profiles.

I want to emphasise that I'm not trying to bag the product. The Bibble crowd knows that I'm a long term supporter and user of B5. I've positive and optimistic about the move to Corel. The point of compiling this list is to make sure that the Devs are aware that there are a number of deal breakers that are preventing users getting serious with ASP. We need these fixes asap.

F_P

Tadjio · Post by **Tadjio** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:33 am

ferdinand-paris wrote:1. Rotation Artefacts
Tadjio wrote:This link was broken.

All better now

I find these links very useful to research the issues without cluttering this thread.
I have subscribed to forum.bibblelabs but only see the issues if there are new posts.
Thanks for the tidy list.

thufor · Post by **thufor** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:57 am

5. Auto Contrast / Auto Levels broken

I currently don't use ASP other than testing. Those 5 bugs are currently show stoppers for me. Waiting for fixes and using B5 in the meantime.

I have to say however that I really like the new color engine -- much better "out of the box" and easier to control results than in B5. E.g. no shadow issues with Canon RAWs (yay!) :-)

Dear Corel, get those fixes in and release the beast! ;-)

ferdinand-paris · Post by **ferdinand-paris** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:19 am

I have added #5 to my list, although I don't put it in quite the same category as the others. I've also amplified my comment in the initial post a little.

F_P

marbly · Post by **marbly** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:22 am

I don't like to be negative, but ASP is the buggiest non-beta software I have ever used.

I say that reluctantly because it has lots of potential and I like many things, but finally I reluctantly decided it is not worth me wasting anymore of my time on version 1.0.0.39. I have filed lots of bug reports with Corel already. The bugs are just too numerous and just about everytime I use it I find a new one. In my opinion, there is no way this software was ready for release. It needs more refinement in a few areas also, but the biggest problem is bugs. I will watch and hope for a much better version to be released soon.

andysalay · Post by **andysalay** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:32 am

All of the above and forgotten dots.

I am unhappy also because ASP change the way how feathers are rendered. Now I do not have full opacity inside the whole region, but with greater feathers which I use very often, the areas of lower opacity (should be feather only areas) protrude many pixels iside the region. This is very uncomfortable for ND filters.
Try to make a polygon (rectangle) above half of an image, set larger feather (e.g. 200-500) and make strong underexposure. You get distinct vignetting around the polygon borders, INSIDE of a polygon. So you must stretch the points (polygon border) much further away of the canvas, which is very uncomfortable and cumbersome without the ability to zoom out more than "fit image".
Please, change it back to the B5 way or at least finally let us zoom out more.
This is a showstopper to me.

PS:
release feather limit a bit, current value is quite limiting. I often need very smooth and large feathers. I think half of the image width should be sufficient. But 802 value (for D300 image) and 836 for D7000 image is too limiting. I have discovered that if I write in numeric value, I can go far beyond the limit, but I am afraid developers will drop this option. Please, do not drop it, instead relax this tight restriction.

Regards,
Andy Salay

ferdinand-paris · Post by **ferdinand-paris** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:21 am

I've added the forgotten dots to the original post. Perhaps you should create a thread with demo images for the layer opacity / feather problem and I will link to it.

F_P

tomsi42 · Post by **tomsi42** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:31 am

I think this list is about complete.

I have solved the sharpness issue by using Wavelet sharpen with some sensible settings in the DefaultRaw.

For me the HR bug is the biggest issue, but that one is in Bibble too, so I have more or less moved over to ASP because the benefits are bigger than the bugs.

For some reason, I don't see Bug #1 and I can avoid #2 by not using CA correction for the moment.

I hope to see a service pack fixing these issues in a few weeks time. But I will not be surprised if it takes a little longer ...

marbly · Post by **marbly** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:44 am

tomsi42 wrote:I think this list is about complete.

Unfortunately, it is not complete. I have reported several bugs and none are on this list. I haven't kept a log of bugs that I have reported, but some I asked about here on this forum before posting. I have also seen other people post about bugs they have found. I am sure there are lots more just waiting to be found if I felt like spending anymore time on 1.0.0.39. Maybe Corel will push hard on bug fixing and get a release out soon.

ferdinand-paris · Post by **ferdinand-paris** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:25 am

I'm not trying to create a complete bug tracking log. I'm only listing things that are really preventing people from using ASP. Or things that broke in the B5->ASP migration. Artefacts are real blockers. Sharpening and auto-contrast aren't real blockers, but they fit the second category.

F_P

seanmpuckett · Post by **seanmpuckett** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:47 pm

Mostly for me it is a few little things, and some big things. I've been using Lightroom for production for a year and while obviously I can't use my plug-ins (and LR3s built in tonality is lacking, haven't tried LR4), LR's UI is leaps ahead. LR also has far better noise management and sharpening control. The additional studio features are basically essential to my workflow: Integrated uploading and online portfolio management and a truly useful printing facility. Also the lack of littering xmp files all over the place. I don't like what AfterShot's exposure slider does, it seems broken to me, but then again so does Lightroom's.

The shipping version of Aftershot along with B5 have the old highlight code which meant my M9 images were largely unusable. That's what drove me away; I could either use the software I liked or the camera I liked. The camera won.

I wouldn't say I've switched back yet, but I did do a headshot job with AfterShot that came out okay. Though I used LR to upload the finished files to my portfolio site.

Franz Dur · Post by **Franz Dur** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:04 pm

- Rotation Artefacts : I only use zPerspector for rotation and I don't see any artifacts
- CA Correction Artefacts : Always turned of. I often use old Nikkor primes (105/2.5, 55/2.8, 24/2.8, etc), with these CA (and distorsion) are minimal. It is only annoying with the Tokina 12-24/4, but I can live with it.
- HR Issues : this is the main issue, dates back to B4, and was not corrected in B5 and ASP. With the D7000 it is even worse than with D80 or the Pana GF1. It is ugly, there is no simple cure, I tried all color correction options, it is never pleasant. I am carefull not to expose to the right, and when it happens I use CaptureOne 6...

The rest doesn't bother me, but I am not a professional photographer...

Francis

tigloo · Post by **tigloo** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:37 pm

I think the file deletion bug that has been reported here is also relevant:

http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=45308

You select one set of file, press delete, but ASP deletes a previously selected file. I ran into this as well, if you don't pay attention when emptying your trash can, you can lose data.

tomsi42 · Post by **tomsi42** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:03 pm

marbly wrote: Unfortunately, it is not complete. I have reported several bugs and none are on this list.

No list will ever be complete. This list was complete for me, as the list of bugs that prevents me from going 100% over to ASP. There are many small issues I would like to fix, but those hinder me in creating the results I want.

I am optimistic that these bugs will be fixed now that they have thrown out the Kodak engine and hopefully have more resources since Corel stands behind it.

roland65 · Post by **roland65** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:28 pm

Hi there,

I've been led to the same conclusion as you guys : ASP cannot be used for serious work for now. So I went back to Bibble 5.2.3...

I think the problem is purely commercial : Corel wanted to announce their new product at the CES in january 2012 even if they knew the product was not finished. This is completely counter productive because I saw many reviews on the net that are not very enthousiastic (the most positive appreciation was often that it is not so bad for its price!).

Anyway, I talked with some darktable devs and they said they are currently implementing layers and local adjustements. So perhaps we will have at last a free good raw processor under Linux and Mac by the end of the year...
RB

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