Best Workflow / XMP usage combination ASP & PSP

[Cootje]

HI,

Hope you could give a newbee - with ASP and PSP - some advice on the best workflow. I'm pretty possitive about the usablility of ASP for the RAW workflow and PSP for the detailed photo editing. I'm struggling with the photo management / integration between the two.

The situation:
- I like to use ASP for the download > selection > raw conversion > fast labeling (rating and IPTC keywords)
- The labeling (EXIF/IPTC changes) made in ASP is not visible in PSP.

Please could you advice me how I can use both application bi-directional? Is it possible and/or what should I change in the settings?

Thanks in advantage,

Marco

[Tadjio]

The situation:
- I like to use ASP for the download > selection > raw conversion > fast labeling (rating and IPTC keywords)
- The labeling (EXIF/IPTC changes) made in ASP is not visible in PSP.
Marco

Please see my thread "ASP, PSP and XMP" in the AfterShot Pro forum.
We have an imasse as ASP won't write the Image Properties, only the XMP, and PSP will read the Image Properties and not the XMP.

[OldRadioGuy]

The situation:
- I like to use ASP for the download > selection > raw conversion > fast labeling (rating and IPTC keywords)
- The labeling (EXIF/IPTC changes) made in ASP is not visible in PSP.
Marco

Please see my thread "ASP, PSP and XMP" in the AfterShot Pro forum.
We have an imasse as ASP won't write the Image Properties, only the XMP, and PSP will read the Image Properties and not the XMP.

Tajio has raised some very important issues related to PSP on that forum. Here's the link to Tadjio's thread in the ASP forum. http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=45329

In my opinion, that forum is a challenge for longtime PaintShop Pro users seeking useful information as the program relates to PSP or any other external editor. It seems to be dominated by a few Bibble users some of whom babble in Bibble talk with no experience in PSP and no understanding of the needs of PSP customers. Not all users need the workflow of professional wedding photographers -- shoot, process and move on. Some us need better integration with creative image work requiring layers and scripting in our photo editor.

One more general area area of confusion there has been plugins. Longtime PSP users have used standard 8bf plugins with PSP and certainly want to continue to use those plugins in connection with ASP. But mention plugins there, and the Bibble users think you're discussing Bibble plugsin. PaintShop Pro and 8bf plugins were here a long time before Bibble and Bibble plugsing, and most of us are unlikely to adopt ASP in the long run without better nondestructive integration of those tools.

Bob

[Tadjio]

Please see my thread "ASP, PSP and XMP" in the AfterShot Pro forum.
We have an imasse as ASP won't write the Image Properties, only the XMP, and PSP will read the Image Properties and not the XMP.

Tajio has raised some very important issues related to PSP on that forum. Here's the link to Tadjio's thread in the ASP forum. http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=45329

In my opinion, that forum is a challenge for longtime PaintShop Pro users seeking useful information as the program relates to PSP or any other external editor. It seems to be dominated by a few Bibble users some of whom babble in Bibble talk with no experience in PSP and no understanding of the needs of PSP customers. Not all users need the workflow of professional wedding photographers -- shoot, process and move on. Some us need better integration with creative image work requiring layers and scripting in our photo editor.

Bob

Thanks Bob, for backing me up. Are you going to say anything in the ASP Forum too?

I wrote my summary to highlight some of the fundamental differences between PSP and ASP.

My understanding is that if you just use AfterShot Pro for all your workflow as a self-contained environment, that is fine. (This includes calling PSP as an External Editor).

This would be comparable to committing exclusively to PSP Manage Mode and the ImageDB.db Database...

The difficulties arise when you use any other software (except possibly the Mud Hut).
As PSP Users in a Windows environment using Windows Explorer to manage our files and folders alongside other software such as Canon's DPP and ZoomBrowser and Exifer (in my case) then the fact that aspects are locked into ASP and not visible externally becomes a problem, especially if you use the Library Catalog and don't use XMP files.

[Tadjio]

One more general area area of confusion there has been plugins. Longtime PSP users have used standard 8bf plugins with PSP and certainly want to continue to use those plugins in connection with ASP. But mention plugins there, and the Bibble users think you're discussing Bibble plugsin. PaintShop Pro and 8bf plugins were here a long time before Bibble and Bibble plugsing, and most of us are unlikely to adopt ASP in the long run without better nondestructive integration of those tools.
Bob

I think you are right about the comparison of the use of plugins.
In PSP they are called in a 'destructive' manner (unless you undo the History) whereas in ASP they are part of the 'non-destructive' concept.
I think this 'non-destructive' concept in ASP is great. Plugins plug in seamlessly just like any other tool or control in ASP. The only 'danger' is that Bibble and now Corel rely on third parties to do things we would expect to be part of the core software. For example Perspective Correction, Red Eye Correection and Text.

The 'non-destructive' concept is multi-faceted. While working on an image you can adjust anything that you did before at any time and the effect ripplies through what is called the 'pipeline'. A good example is Crop.

Once you close ASP, the Image is frozen in this state if you are using the File System mode of editing. It is then only possible to revert to the original image or retain the current one, within ASP.

However, if you are using the Library Catalog, all the History of changes is retained between sessions of ASP and so you can go back and amend any step at any time. That is true 'non-destructive' image editing

[OldRadioGuy]

Thanks Bob, for backing me up. Are you going to say anything in the ASP Forum too?

Yes. Just did.

Bob

[bananahead]

There is confusion because both PSP and ASP use the term 'Plugin'.

In PSP Plugins are external programs that do a round trip pixel edit.

In ASP Plugins are bits of code that run inside the product. It would be better if they were called add-ins or user-mods or something.


And the DAM part of both sucks.

I do use ASP as DAM but only in a basic mode. If I am happy with a converted RAW then I output that as a TIFF and mark it with two or more stars in ASP. I have a structure so I know where the TIFF is kept. I will then work on the TIFF in PSP until I am happy.

[thazooo]

HI,

Hope you could give a newbee - with ASP and PSP - some advice on the best workflow. I'm pretty possitive about the usablility of ASP for the RAW workflow and PSP for the detailed photo editing. I'm struggling with the photo management / integration between the two.

The situation:
- I like to use ASP for the download > selection > raw conversion > fast labeling (rating and IPTC keywords)
- The labeling (EXIF/IPTC changes) made in ASP is not visible in PSP.

Please could you advice me how I can use both application bi-directional? Is it possible and/or what should I change in the settings?

Thanks in advantage,

Marco

The 'Combo Programs' can be a nightmare when trying to get them to talk to another program. When you use Non Destructive Editing they all use a proprietary .xmp file to store the changes you've done. In ASP you must use it's Catalog Feature if you want Non Destructive editing and have the ability to revert to a point in your processing.
All this being said.......the workflow I've adopted is.......

Since I have all my images Cataloged in ACDSee Pro 3, I still use it for DAM. Since you're just starting Asset Management use the ASP.
I use ASP for RAW Conversion. The images that I process are put into ASP catalog, I do this for the Non Destructive Editing. Once they are
edited I output a Tiff or Jpg.
The output I then edit in PSP X3 or Photo Paint X4. I then save as adjusted.
I then return to ACDSee Pro 3 and Catalog the final images. This added step takes but a second. You would be returning to ASP to complete this step.
By doing it this way I have the Origin RAW with changes and my final image Cataloged.

Hopefully as Corel develops the program all Info will be interchangeable between programs. Including Photo Paint