ASP Work Flow

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kaymann
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ASP Work Flow

Post by kaymann »

When I first started using PSPX4 (Beta) I was relieved to find that I could finally tag keywords to my RAWs (PSPPX3 would not allow it). I was not impressed with my original photos being moved to a single "saved" folder with no structure, while my edited photos stayed in the original folder. Finally some sort of hidden file thing happened in the SP1 - ugh - which made the workflow process even more tedious. I can also sadly report the RAW renditions in PSPX4 were all underexposed and muddy compared to Canon DPP.

Then I was offered ASP beta and was very intrigued with true non-destructive editing (better than Canon DPP because I could go back days latter and still undo), stacking and versions - this has got to be the cat's meow.

I then got LR3 trial (with updates I got over 60 days of free use. I opened ASP and LR3 side by side and worked over my photos previously edited with DPP and PSPX4. I passed keywords between the two and generally figured out what process they were trying to fit me in. I dug in and was struck by how non-intuitive (very non-Corel-ish) ASP was at first. However with time I actually found it very intuitve to complete a workflow process that previously required several programs for every photo.

I landed on an ASP workflow that was efficient and therefore ultimately intuitive which leaves LR3 uninstalled.

A long story to get to how I landed on my final workflow:

1) Take many RAW photos which usually includes many bracketed exposures for HDR. I take way too many knowing I will ultimately kill many of them.

2) Insert card into computer (LR3 would instantly ask me if they should be imported, cataloged and tagged - ASP count this as Wish list item).

3) Open ASP and click "D" for download. I have preset Download to grab the photos and place them in a folder called “RAW” subfolder "year" folder and subfolder by date. I could then attach any tags that would apply to the whole down load.

4) I then have to import them into my ASP Catalog/Library (LR3 did this automatically via watched folders - ASP count this as Wish list item).

5) Then I go to all thumbnail view, (F8 changed to Shift T - I hate mouse when I can use keyboard) to get an overall feeling of the shoot.

6) I then start the process of rejecting photos. if needed I can go back and forth to image view for a better (shortcut changed to Shift I), I use the following criteria for rejects:

a) do I have photo of similar composition but better quality that can replace the reject (selecting two photos in multi-view makes this easy.

b) is it just so bad it has to go, and only remotely brings back a memorable moment.

7) I then star/rank (keyboard shortcuts 1, 2, 3, etc) what is left over and apply more pertinent tags/keywords (LR3 has most frequently used Tags/Keywords shortcuts - ASP count this as Wish list item).

8) While ranking them I am also stacking them (short cut K). ASP has an annoying habit of not rolling the stack after associating the stack. You have to deselect the stack and then select it again (LR3 does not have this flaw and it really cuts down on efficiency - I have complained since the first beta). I base my stack on both composition and HDR needs. Stacking makes for a very neat and easy to scan catalog.

9) Editing then occurs utilizing the available short cuts. Here I will also make versions of different exposures. Under Batch Output you can create your own hand offs. For instance I created “TIFF HDR” with its own “shortcut Shift H” that creates a tiff of the selected RAWs, names the tiffs by date and time, and places them in my “HDR” folder. Finally it calls up my HDR program to begin the compiling process. I made a similar Batch Output called “TIFF Stitch” that hands off to my photo stitch program. Let your imagination go on this one create program calling short cuts. This is where ASP kicks LR3 - creating custom Batch Outputs and giving them shortcuts. I never make a Batch Out from scratch I just duplicate the closest thing and tweak a little.

10) Finally I Click “F” a default batch output which has a preset to save the final picture in a folder “READY”/ “date.jpg”

I hope this helps kick start the use of ASP for some of you. I completely understand some folks would consider the above insanity but it really works for me and it is a great time saver.
df
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Re: ASP Work Flow

Post by df »

What is the point of stacking them?
Regards, Dan

"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast."
kaymann
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Re: ASP Work Flow

Post by kaymann »

df wrote:What is the point of stacking them?
1) a very tight consise thumbnail viewing.
2) Photos for stitching get a color flag and aren't accidently ditched for lack of compostion.
3) Different experimental exposures and compostions can easily be compared even when taken out of sequence.
4) Photos for HDR get a color flag and aren't accidently ditched for lack of proper exposure.
brucet
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Re: ASP Work Flow

Post by brucet »

Maybe it's just my age. But I can't get my head around all these catalogues and flags and tags and things.
I grew up with DOS and directories. (Now folders).

Everyone needs to find a system that works for them. But I tend to think many are making more work for themselves. Not being critical just an observation.

For me I have a folder named 'Photos'. Within that folder I have folders named for the date of download created automatically when downloading from the camera. (I also have a 'Portfolio' folder wher all my better photos are filed. It has sub folder). Now I plug the camera in and by default it downloads to the 'Photo' folder and creates a new folder based on date.

Then in ASP I skip all their database systems and simply open up the appropriate Date folder. Load, delete or edit the photos back into their 'relative' folder. ie the same folder.
Then in PSPx4 I simply go to that folder, open the files and edit. Saving them back into the same folder. It's only the 'good' ones that I file into my 'Portfolio' folder.

I do have a spreadsheet that I keep with details of dates and file numbers.

But as I said to start with. It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

Regards
kaymann
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Re: ASP Work Flow

Post by kaymann »

brucet wrote:I do have a spreadsheet that I keep with details of dates and file numbers.

But as I said to start with. It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

Regards
What is easier letting ASP document the photos or a spreadsheet I would often forget to update or throw into dyslesic error...
You have two folders Photos and Portfolio, I have two RAW and READY (and ASP auto creates the date named subfolders for me) then I have two more Stitched and HDR...

You almost had me until you brought up the spreadsheet... and BTW I am old old dog so I understand and no offense was taken as I would gladly pick up any advice to streamline the process of managing the thousands of pictures I have.
df
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Re: ASP Work Flow

Post by df »

kaymann wrote:.
4) Photos for HDR get a color flag and aren't accidently ditched for lack of proper exposure.
You should honestly be creating the HDRs before sorting and culling for a number of reasons.

For the rest I'm just going to leave it as "I don't get it", and not say much more.
Regards, Dan

"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast."
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Re: ASP Work Flow

Post by afx »

kaymann wrote:2) Insert card into computer (LR3 would instantly ask me if they should be imported, cataloged and tagged - ASP count this as Wish list item).
Yuck no. All those auto functions when media are inserted are just an invitation for security holes.
4) I then have to import them into my ASP Catalog/Library (LR3 did this automatically via watched folders - ASP count this as Wish list item).
Why not just have the download queue import them?
7) I then star/rank (keyboard shortcuts 1, 2, 3, etc) what is left over and apply more pertinent tags/keywords (LR3 has most frequently used Tags/Keywords shortcuts - ASP count this as Wish list item).
Yup, there is room for improvement. For now I use presets for often needed metadata.

cheers
afx
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afx
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Re: ASP Work Flow

Post by afx »

brucet wrote:Maybe it's just my age. But I can't get my head around all these catalogues and flags and tags and things.
I grew up with DOS and directories. (Now folders).
Yes, but the IT world has improved since then and unless you are still using the current day variant of DOS you don't even drive letters any more.... ;-)
I do have a spreadsheet that I keep with details of dates and file numbers.
A recipe for failure. It very much depends on you keeping your files and something external in sync. Bad IT practice.

While I do endorse decent file system structures as a base for image storage, I would think that an auxiliary, manually maintained meta data base is an invitation for inconsistencies and a PITA to take care of.
Just apply the meta info with the images...

All the rating and color tagging is just something that makes workflows faster by allowing you to quickly identify states and filter on them. As you can apply them via keyboard shortcuts this is extremely fast (I often shoot events or playing animals, both result in relatively large amounts of images...).

cheers
afx
Send bugs to the Monkey // AfterShot Kickstart Guide // sRGB clipping sucks and Adobe RGB is just as bad
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brucet
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Re: ASP Work Flow

Post by brucet »

You mean my 5 1/4 inch disks are nolonger relevant?
Heck and I had just upgraded from a casette. Tried the 8 inch disks but the dog ate them.
No wonder my photos struggle with only 32k of ROM and 32K of RAM.

Jokes aside. I was trimming off a lot of detail with my filing system discription.
I was a software/systems designer way back in the days of dBase. Yep I'm that old! Even used CPM and Concurrent CPM!! (Early multi function stuff).

The key for me, is being methodical. I have a system in place and a routine I follow that works for me. It's a part of the 'old habits die hard' routine.
If I was starting a new then for sure I would use one of the 'new' systems. But no matter what you use you need to stick with it and don't be tempted to make wholesale changes. Habit is important. My spreadsheets are simple. File numbers, date taken, folder name, short discription and backup drive number etc. (Yes I keep a number of external hard drives that I save blocks/folders of data on. I flip flop the back ups. Another old habit! Within each folder I have work folders. Finished projects and work in progress files. May sound a bit complicated now that I've explained it further but it's rather simple actually. A flow chart is invaluable. I have a work flow written up and pinned to the wall in front of my work computer. A flow chart is also beside the written one.

Work flow in editing is just as important as in your filing system. Routine will make life much easier.

Each to their own. Just be consistant and make good copies for the day when something goes wrong. Because it will.

Regards
grubernd
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Re: ASP Work Flow

Post by grubernd »

kaymann wrote:6) I then start the process of rejecting photos. if needed I can go back and forth to image view for a better (shortcut changed to Shift I), I use the following criteria for rejects:
- magnifier works on thumbs, too
- thumbview >> doubleclick >> imageview >> [Esc] key to get you back to thumbs
Bibble since 2004. Aftershot until 2020. From then on darktable.
kaymann
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Re: ASP Work Flow

Post by kaymann »

afx wrote:
kaymann wrote:2) Insert card into computer (LR3 would instantly ask me if they should be imported, cataloged and tagged - ASP count this as Wish list item).
Yuck no. All those auto functions when media are inserted are just an invitation for security holes.
4) I then have to import them into my ASP Catalog/Library (LR3 did this automatically via watched folders - ASP count this as Wish list item).
Why not just have the download queue import them?

I do
7) I then star/rank (keyboard shortcuts 1, 2, 3, etc) what is left over and apply more pertinent tags/keywords (LR3 has most frequently used Tags/Keywords shortcuts - ASP count this as Wish list item).
Yup, there is room for improvement. For now I use presets for often needed metadata.

cheers
afx
Create batch downloads that exclusively adds keywords/tags and nothing else - that could do the trick...
kaymann
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Re: ASP Work Flow

Post by kaymann »

grubernd wrote:
kaymann wrote:6) I then start the process of rejecting photos. if needed I can go back and forth to image view for a better (shortcut changed to Shift I), I use the following criteria for rejects:
- magnifier works on thumbs, too
- thumbview >> doubleclick >> imageview >> [Esc] key to get you back to thumbs
Yes it is awesome I use it for quick focus checks...
kaymann
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Re: ASP Work Flow

Post by kaymann »

df wrote:
kaymann wrote:.
4) Photos for HDR get a color flag and aren't accidently ditched for lack of proper exposure.
You should honestly be creating the HDRs before sorting and culling for a number of reasons.
I don't quite get that one....

I take lots of photos, some for HDR some not, depending on the conditions and my mood. So a download into a dated folder will initially hold pans, HDR and lots of others. Stacking labeling and sending to the appropriate stictch or HDR folder gets them out of the way until I am ready to spend the time creating the single image.

BTW I love the ideas I am getting from the old Bibble forum and here at the ASP forum. So just because I don't get it doesn't mean I not open to it or offended or...
df
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Re: ASP Work Flow

Post by df »

If you wind up culling out images that you would have used for an HDR then you've wasted the effort of shooting the bracket of shots for the HDR. If you cull out an entire set of images meant for HDR due to whatever reason then you haven't even looked at what the HDR would have been. How often have you shot a bracket, imported, looked at it, processed it, and still been surprised by the results? I just can't see myself ignoring the intent of the image in the first place. In Canon's software brackets are clearly marked. Does ASP do that? If not it should be added as a wishlist item.

With my workflow though, if I'm shooting HDR then 90% of the shots are going to be HDR. This is some older stuff, but it's an example. Most non-HDR is film (the grainy shots) http://www.ferrelphotography.com/Real_Estate.html
Regards, Dan

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kaymann
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Re: ASP Work Flow

Post by kaymann »

Were talking the same thing. Other than when I go on a long hike I will not restrict myself to HDR only.

One other nicety of stacking brackets, I can look at bracketed stack and know that in there is a mid-exposure shot I can probably use to produce very good photos if I need them fast.
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