Save vs. Save As: Different output file sizes

[fotojrb]

version: PSPx4 SP1
OS: Win 7 Pro

When saving JPEGs, I seem to be getting wildly different resulting file sizes, depending on whether I've used Save or Save As. Case in point:

original file size from camera: 6194 KB

Save / Standard encoding / compression factor 2: 1875 KB
Save As / Standard encoding / compression factor 2: 5184 KB

Save / Lossless encoding : 1875 KB
Save As / Lossless encoding: 7235 KB

It seems to me that with x2 (my previous version), I could set the low compression factor, and the resulting Save file would actually be larger than the original. I want to be able to save with minimal compression (but I don't want to mess with TIFFs), and I need to know if I should now be using Save As instead.

Is this as designed, is it my imagination...what's going on?

[squiddy22]

version: PSP X4 SP1
OS: Win XP pro

No you are not imagining it. I am having the same problem. I know that there was a thread on this before and a beta tester did
bring this to the attention of Corel. X2 handled compression correctly and if I remember the threat X3 did also. Hopefully they will fix this

[teknisyan]

You can adjust the encoding and attributes on how your PSP X4 saves a jpeg or a file.

You may want to checkout these two KB.

000011162 - How to keep the high-quality of image from RAW Files to another file format?

000011107 - How to save a Jpeg (*.jpg) and keep the high-quality of the photo?

[Tadjio]

You can adjust the encoding and attributes on how your PSP X4 saves a jpeg or a file.
You may want to checkout these two KB.
000011162 - How to keep the high-quality of image from RAW Files to another file format?
000011107 - How to save a Jpeg (*.jpg) and keep the high-quality of the photo?

Abiel how do you get a Compression Factor of Zero?
I suggest the screen image in the above link has been 'redacted' as the lowest possible value is One.

[Simone Corel UK]

We have had the same question a few weeks ago. PSPX4 has got a new, different engine than X3 had.

I tested if there is differences and printed out the same image with Photoshop CS 5 and PSPX4 on a £7.000 professional printer. Then I let my colleagues decide. I didn't tell them which one is PSP or PS. Each of them spent minutes looking at them and said that there is no difference in colour or quality.

[teknisyan]

You can adjust the encoding and attributes on how your PSP X4 saves a jpeg or a file.
You may want to checkout these two KB.
000011162 - How to keep the high-quality of image from RAW Files to another file format?
000011107 - How to save a Jpeg (*.jpg) and keep the high-quality of the photo?

Abiel how do you get a Compression Factor of Zero?
I suggest the screen image in the above link has been 'redacted' as the lowest possible value is One.

Are you referring to the screen shot at http://corel.force.com/index/articles/e ... -the-photo?

I took of if and made the necessary corrections.

[Tadjio]

Are you referring to the screen shot at http://corel.force.com/index/articles/e ... -the-photo?
I took of if and made the necessary corrections.

Sorry, Abiel, there's a typo in your answer.
Are you saying it is now corrected or that it will be corrected on the Corel web-site Knowledge Base?

[teknisyan]

Are you referring to the screen shot at http://corel.force.com/index/articles/e ... -the-photo?
I took of if and made the necessary corrections.

Sorry, Abiel, there's a typo in your answer.
Are you saying it is now corrected or that it will be corrected on the Corel web-site Knowledge Base?

Yes the screen shot that has the compression to "0" and on step 2. It has been corrected already. Thanks for bringing that up.

[Tadjio]

Yes the screen shot that has the compression to "0" and on step 2. It has been corrected already. Thanks for bringing that up.

That's great

[fotojrb]

You can adjust the encoding and attributes on how your PSP X4 saves a jpeg or a file.

000011107 - How to save a Jpeg (*.jpg) and keep the high-quality of the photo?

As I said in my original post, I had set a low compression factor (2). Just to be sure, I tried the same test, using two different images and setting a compression factor of 1. I did nothing but open the files and save them, no edits. Same result: In Standard encoding, Save significantly shrank the image file size, while Save As gave a file size that was nearly the same as the original. In Lossless encoding, Save produced a smaller file again (about the same size as the Standard encoded file), but Save As actually resulted in a larger file.

I've reported this as a bug. I think this is a significant issue on several accounts. For one, it makes no sense that Save and Save As behave differently; that's just making life needlessly difficult for the user. In addition, I would imagine that the "shrunken" Save file would be less likely to produce large prints well--16x20 or 20x30, for example. I haven't tested this, but that's my guess. It also seems more than a little misleading to call something "Lossless" when the resulting File is 20% the size of the original.

[fotojrb]

I forgot to mention that there is, of course, a workaround (of sorts), which is to work on and save all files in PSPimage format. The catch is that PSPimage files are so large that drive space could become an issue. I do keep master copies of my professional work in PSPimage format, but in some cases it is simply easier and more practical to work in JPEG.

[fotojrb]

We have had the same question a few weeks ago. PSPX4 has got a new, different engine than X3 had.

I tested if there is differences and printed out the same image with Photoshop CS 5 and PSPX4 on a £7.000 professional printer. Then I let my colleagues decide. I didn't tell them which one is PSP or PS. Each of them spent minutes looking at them and said that there is no difference in colour or quality.

I'm not sure this really addresses the issue. What size print? What file size? Had the image merely been opened in PSPx4 and then printed, or had it been saved before printing?

The bottom line is that this inconsistent and illogical behavior doesn't inspire confidence.

I haven't heard back from the bug report people yet. I'll be interested to see what they have to say, and I'll try to pass it on.

[fotojrb]

This morning I had a long phone conversation with Corel Tech Support. (A real first--they asked me to call them!) In a nutshell, we both came to the conclusion that x4 works differently from x2 (my previous version--I skipped x3) and that x4 is internally inconsistent in how it saves files.

To test this, I took a file from my digital SLR and made six identical copies, naming them as follows:

• Standard2_Save As
  Standard2_Save
  Lossless_Save As
  Lossless_Save
  Standard20_Save As
  Standard20_Save

I didn't edit the files at all, but simply opened each one, set perameters as required (encoding type--Standard or Lossless--and compression factor for Standard encoding--either 2 or 20), and then saved the file.

I tested these files on my old, soon-to-be-retired XP machine running PSPx2, with these results:

• With Standard encoding and a compression factor of 2, Save and Save As produced the same size file, actually slightly larger than the original.
  With Lossless encoding, Save produced a file that was essentially the same size as the Standard/compression2 file.
  With Lossless encoding, Save As produced a file that was significantly larger than the original, almost three times as large.
  With Standard encoding and a compression factor of 20, Save and Save As produced the same size file, significantly smaller than the original.

All of this was as I expected, except for the large Lossless/Save As file, but I'm perfectly willing to accept it. Better that than a smaller file.

When I tested the files on PSPx4, on my new system running Win 7 Professional 64-bit (in case that is of any significance), I got these results:

• Save produced the same size file--less than a quarter (about 24%) the size of the original--regardless of the encoding or compression factor.
  With Standard encoding and a compression factor of 2, Save As produced a file that was 76% the size of the original.
  With Standard encoding and a compression factor of 20, Save As produced a file that was less than 20% the size of the original.
  With Lossless encoding, Save As produced a file that was 115% of the original--in other words, larger.

As you can see, x2 and x4 behave very differently. In addition, in x4 the Save command appears to disregard the encoding method or compression factor, which indicates to me that the Save command is broken. And needs to be fixed.

Corel Tech support is going to pass all this on to the proper authorities (I hope). I'll be interested to hear what they have to say.

[Simone Corel UK]

@fotojrb
"This morning I had a long phone conversation with Corel Tech Support. (A real first--they asked me to call them!) ... Corel Tech support is going to pass all this on to the proper authorities (I hope). I'll be interested to hear what they have to say."

I would like to ask you that you read a message like my one from Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:06 am.

For all following readers and comments: This is how it works and let's say again:

We have had the same question a few weeks ago. PSPX4 has got a new, different engine than X3 had.

I tested if there is differences and printed out the same image with Photoshop CS 5 and PSPX4 on a £7.000 professional printer. Then I let my colleagues decide. I didn't tell them which one is PSP or PS. Each of them spent minutes looking at them and said that there is no difference in colour or quality.

Please don't call the support teams in this matter. Thank you for your understanding.

[fotojrb]

@Simone Corel UK:

Please note that I called Corel Tech Support at their request.

I did in fact read your previous post. If there has already been a thread on this subject, I would be more than willing to read it. Please point me to it.

You say that x4 has "a new, different engine than [sic] X3." What does that mean? How does that explain the behavior of Save vs. Save As or the fact that a lossless Save actually incurs a loss? Does it not matter that Save shrinks a file to around 20% of its original size, regardless of the encoding method or the compression factor?

The Tech Support person with whom I spoke this morning agreed that something wasn't right about x4's behavior. I have no plans to call them again, unless they request it, but I will continue to report program behavior that is buggy or doesn't make sense.