Rendering problems

[MikeC1964]

HI,

Having started to put my project together (using X4 Pro) I decided to try rendering it to see how it looked so far on a DVD. I chose the DVD 16:9 option and set it off. However, the render consistently fails after about 1 or 2%. The advice suggests sending the dump file to Tech Support, but on browsing I file that the dump file is in fact empty (0kb).

Do you have any suggestions as to some basic things I could check to determine myself what the problem might be?

I have managed to perform a render using the software, but just nhot this project which suggests to me it is specific to this problem rather than being a general issue. Happy to consider any suggestions.

Thanks,

Mike

[Ken Berry]

Hi Mike. You have not provided enough information for a sensible answer. For instance, what is the format of the video you are trying to burn to the DVD. And did you first convert the project to a new DVD-compatible mpeg-2 (Share > Create Video File > DVD), or did you jump straight into the burning ( Share > Create Disc > DVD)? If, as I suspect, you did the latter, then try the former. That way you can play it back on a software player to see if it works the way you want. And you save on making a drink coaster.

[MikeC1964]

Hi Ken,

Thanks for your reply.

I am not at this stage trying to burn the DVD, but am trying to create a file that I can burn to DVD. I have done this (i.e. create a file) successfully for other small projects (such as a photo slideshow with some music).

I am working with captured DV video in 16:9 format and using DV Type 1 and also one of the instant project templates.

The options I am choosing within the 'Share' tab to create the output file are:
- Create a video file
- DVD
- DVD video 16:9

I'm not sure whether this is relevant, but my project properties are:
- Edit file format: Microsoft AVI files
- NTSC non-drop frame (30 fps)....... Hmmm. Shouldn't this be PAL as I'm based in Europe? I can't seem to change this setting.
- 24 bits, 720x576, 30pps
- Lower Field First
- Uncompressed
- PCM, 44.100 kz, 16 Bit, Stereo

Please let me know if there's any other information you need.

[Ken Berry]

Certainly should be PAL if you set it up that way, with 25 fps as the speed instead of 30. In the initial installation procedure, you would have been asked which country you live or which was your TV system. Either should have set-up the program as PAL if you selected either a European country or PAL/SECAM as the system.

You can, however, go to Settings > Project Properties and click the Edit button then select the Compression tab. The first button down will allow you to select PAL DVD instead of NTSC. But this is only a band-aid solution. You might need to consider reinstalling VS and this time making sure it was set to PAL.

I am assuming in saying this that your video camera is a PAL one... I am curious, though, as to why your Project Properties show NTSC 30 fps, but at the same time use a PAL format size of 720 x 576, instead of NTSC 720 x 480... And indeed why it shows 30 instead of the correct 29.97... These anomalies could explain why VS is having difficulty processing the video.

[MikeC1964]

Hi Ken,

Yes, my camera is a PAL camera (a Canon MD235 for reference)

As a complete novice to the whole subject area of video and editing I have been taking advice on this forum as I was having difficulty getting to grips with the whole aspect ratio concept:

http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php ... 56#p232656

Under advice I set my project settings as a result of that.

I keep all of my .vsp files and videos / photos on a NAS, but if I were to uninstall and re-install would it wipe any favourites / folders / thumbs I have already created or does it wipe the whole lot?

[Ken Berry]

That advice possibly came from someone in an NTSC country. You probably don't need to reinstall VS now that I know where those Project Properties came from.

But you now have to go to Project Properties and Edit them, changing NTSC 30 to PAL 25 fps, and in the next line down also changing 30 to 25. And see how that goes.

[MikeC1964]

Actually the advice was from Trevor Andrew who is UK based like myself.

With regards to the Project Properties, part of this advice was that '......Your project properties should be AVI'. By that I assumed this meant that the Edit File Format option should be set to 'Microsoft AVi files'. With this setting I do not have the Compression tab available to me. If I now change this to 'MPEG files' I have this option available to me and the Media Type is already set to PAL DVD. This gives a TV Standard setting on the Corel Video Studio tab as 'PAL(25fps)'.

[Ken Berry]

I am pretty sure that what Trevor would have meant by suggesting Project Properties set to AVI was to use the DV Type 1 Encoder flavour of AVI. If you just choose Microsoft AVI as the format type, then you get NTSC by default. But if you click the Edit button, then the AVI Tab on the new dialogue box, the first bod is Compression. Click on the arrow and choose DV Type 1. Then down below in Audio, do the same: choose PAL. Then back in the General tab, change the frame rate to 25 fps, the frame type to Lower Field First and the frame size should be 720 x 576 as you appear to have it.

Then, when you have finished editing, you are faced with a choice. You can either render your project into a new DV/AVI by choosing Share > Create Video File > Same as Project Properties. This will allow you to see if indeed everything is as you wished it.

Or you can jump straight to producing a DVD-compatible DVD: Share > Create Video File > DVD If the project is less than one hour in length. Check first to ensure that apart from the format being mpeg-2 PAL, all the other properties are the same as those above for DV.

[Natal]

It doesn't matter what the video properties are, he is apparently describing a process crash, that is the why the dump file was created.

I had similar proplems at one point when I was still using X3 (and VS12 started doing it too at the same time). It appeared that something had become corrupted on the system, or that some new codec potentially was interfering with VS. Reinstalling both X3 and VS12 did not solve the problem. I never resolved the problem, but shortly after it crippled VS I upgraded my hard drive from 500GB to 2TB, and with the reinstalled OS the problem vanished.

I suspect that he has a similar issue.

[MikeC1964]

Interesting couple of posts.

Just to bring you up to speed with where I am:

Last night (UK time) before I received those posts, I rendered using project settings. This completed successfully and produced a .avi file.

Tonight I changed the settings as suggested by Ken and this successfully produced a .mpg file. So at least the rendering process appears now to be working. My issues must have been caused by the original settings for some reason.

It's a bit of a shame though to hear I can only produce an hour of DVD as I'm currently trying to edit down six hours of tape!

[Ken Berry]

Glad things are beginning to work for you!! And there's more good news. You can certainly burn more video to a DVD than one hour's worth. Only, to do so, you cannot use Share > Create Video File > DVD. That's because that is a template with pre-set properties which limit it to one hour.

The main determinant of both quality and size in DVD-compatible mpeg-2 is the bitrate. The above pre-set properties include a bitrate of 8000 kbps which will give high quality. But the obverse rule is that the higher the bitrate the bigger a video will be. And the bigger the file means the less video you can fit on a disc. So a basic rule of thumb for DVDs is that a bitrate of 8000 kbps and using PCM audio, will produce a file of over 4 GB which will fill a single layer DVD (4.3 GB) with high quality video. A bitrate of 6000 kbps will allow 90 minutes of still good quality video to squeeze onto the DVD; and 4000 kbps will allow 2 hours of video, though the quality will only be as good as decent VHS tape. In each case if you use Dolby audio instead of PCM, you will be able to fit around another 10 minutes of video on the disc since Dolby is highly compressed and thus produces a smaller audio file, thus leaving more space for video.

OK? Still with me? So before proceeding much further with your editing, you are going to have to make a decision: are you more interested in quality than quantity? If so, then yes you will only be able to fit 60 -- 70 minutes of video on a single layer disc if you want it to be the highest quality; or 90 -- 100 minutes if you are content with still very good quality video.

But even if you were more interested in quantity than quality, the most most you could squeeze on a disc would be 120 -- 130 minutes since going below a bitrate of 4000 kbps in my opinion is just not worth the effort in terms of quality (though others may disagree).

So ultimately I guess you will have to decide whether you are prepared to go with 3 or 4 good/high quality DVDs from your six hours of video or just 1 or 2 of mediocre quality. Or you could also consider using dual layer discs, though I have never had much success with them.

Anyway, to change the bitrate, you have to select Share > Create Video file > Custom. Make sure mpeg is selected as the format on the dialogue box which appears. Then hit the Edit button. Another dialogue box will open with three tabs. On the third tab you can change the bitrate down from the default 8000 kbps. You can also change the audio format to Dolby. And on the middle tab, make sure that you have Lower Field First selected. I think it will by default be Upper Field First, but since your original video was DV/AVI, which is always Lower Field First, you must maintain this throughout a project. Then OK out of those dialogue boxes, give your new file a name, and proceed with the rendering.

And there you have it. If you think you are going to be producing a few DVDs with the same properties, you can also make a new template with Settings > Make Movie Template Manager and using the above settings. The new templatewill then appear down the bottom of the templates box when next you select Share > Create Video File.

[MikeC1964]

Actually, Ken, you have explained it pretty well. The first thing I need to do is see how much the six hours comes down to in the edit and then figure out what the best option is. I certainly think Dolby will be sufficient for sound. Once I know how long the project is (which will become apparent durng the edit)I'll then make a decision along the lines you have suggested, although the 6000kbps option is the one I'm leaning towards at the moment.

The reason for wanting to try rendering now was that (as per my original posts) my aspect ratios were all over the place - particularly when it came to using photos in one of the standard templates as part of my 'intro'. I seem to be getting on top of that now, but I was never sure of the correlation between what I was seeing inside the editor and what the DVD would look like.

What I may do is have a play with the various options you have suggested and burn them to a DVD to have a look for myself.

Thanks for the advice. I know where you are if I need to find you again !