Smart-Render Question

[Stwilliam]

I'm having an issue with Smart-Render which I'm almost certain is user error (i.e I don't have a clue what I'm doing ! ). I've re-encoded several of my Samsung H264 clips into the following properties :

MPEG-4 Files
24 bits, 1920 x 1080, 30 fps
Frame-based
H.264 Main Profile Video: 17608 Kbps
44100 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo
MPEG AAC Audio: 128 Kbps

I've placed 5 clips into the time line and added a simple crossfade transition between each clip. I have smartrender enabled and have attempted to save the complete video file in A: the same format or B: As per the first clip. I believe that the only rendering that should be occurring is that of the transisitions and not of the video. However five 5 minute clips appear to be taking 45 mins to save. In my old VS3 it would wizz through in a few minutes. Have I missed something ?

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

Just to confirm your render settings, right click on an original video clip and select properties, then repeat for the new rendered file, are the details identical?

[Stwilliam]

Hi

Just to confirm your render settings, right click on an original video clip and select properties, then repeat for the new rendered file, are the details identical?

Yes, they're exactly the same.

If I take a clip direct from my Samsung HD camcorder and encode it with the above specs. It takes around 20 minutes. If I then place a title and transition in this encoded clip and create a new file with the same settings with smart-render ticked. The file still takes 20 mins to create and you can see a decline ( although small ) in quality which leads me to believe it's being encoded again.

In VS3 when I was working with DV video and DVD output specs. When I created a file it was obvious that VS3 was encoding the titles / transitions but not the video and would create the file in minutes.

[Ken Berry]

I've re-encoded several of my Samsung H264 clips

I'm intrigued by your reference to an earlier re-encode. What were the *original* properties of the video straight out of the Samsung? Why did you feel the need to re-encode the original video? What is the exact model of the Samsung?

[Stwilliam]

I've re-encoded several of my Samsung H264 clips

I'm intrigued by your reference to an earlier re-encode. What were the *original* properties of the video straight out of the Samsung? Why did you feel the need to re-encode the original video? What is the exact model of the Samsung?

Hi Ken. The original post is here http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=42832

The Samsung is an R10 HD and VS4 cannot work with the H264 clips direct from the camera. It wont allow clips to be trimmed unless you re-encode first. The Samsung format is a law unto itself and hardly anything works with it ( including Samsungs own software).

I've now got another issue with VS4. It keeps crashing when encoding. I've split the file down to smaller parts to try and find out where it falls over, but there appears to be no pattern. My partner was using VS pro X3 up until last year when she ditched it for the same reason. 90% of the videos she attempted to edit crashed. She now uses a combination of scripts with virtualdub and avimux which works 100% flawless. I would rather continue with VS4 but in the time (past 5 hours ) I've been attempting this edit, my wife did it in 30 mins and the quality is 100% lossless. So I'm really getting frustrated with the software

[Stwilliam]

As anyone got any ideas ?

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

Are you able to make a sample video available so I can use the video on my pc.
Unless you have some way of uploading large files to a server, the only free way I know off is using Windows Messenger to transfer files, however both parties have to be on line at the same time.

[Stwilliam]

Hi

Are you able to make a sample video available so I can use the video on my pc.
Unless you have some way of uploading large files to a server, the only free way I know off is using Windows Messenger to transfer files, however both parties have to be on line at the same time.

I'm working on a way to create some small clips that can uploaded that exhibit the issues. It's very random at which point VS4 crash's. But I've no doubt its linked to joining files that have already been encoded by VS4 initally.

Using the raw files from the camcorder, there is no issue. But some of my files have already been processed in VS4 when I wish to modify or add to an exisiting edit; thats when the problems occur.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi
We really need to find out just what you are trying to create.
Are you intending to make a Standard DVD. Or a Bluray HD or Avchd disc, or a video file for the internet.
This is important as it will allow us to recommend the settings to convert your projects.

You say that the original video from the camera has no issues.
I am a little unsure about the Video Properties you provided earlier.
Are they the original properties of your video file before editing or properties of a rendered file?
Can you please insert an original file from the camera to the timeline, right click and select properties.
What are they?

QuickTime
The version of QT has been known to cause some problems, what version are you using?
Reinstalling an earlier version has cured some crashes for some users.
Video Studio X4 installs QT 7.5.5, however you may have a later version, if so try installing QT 7.5.5

---------------------------------------------------
If you have converted some files in the past and they are giving problems when re-edited then it sound like you converted using the wrong properties.
We need to know the properties of those as well.
In fact properties of all types you are using.
--------------------------------------------------

[Stwilliam]

Hi
We really need to find out just what you are trying to create.
Are you intending to make a Standard DVD. Or a Bluray HD or Avchd disc, or a video file for the internet.
This is important as it will allow us to recommend the settings to convert your projects.

You say that the original video from the camera has no issues.
I am a little unsure about the Video Properties you provided earlier.
Are they the original properties of your video file before editing or properties of a rendered file?
Can you please insert an original file from the camera to the timeline, right click and select properties.
What are they?

QuickTime
The version of QT has been known to cause some problems, what version are you using?
Reinstalling an earlier version has cured some crashes for some users.
Video Studio X4 installs QT 7.5.5, however you may have a later version, if so try installing QT 7.5.5

---------------------------------------------------
If you have converted some files in the past and they are giving problems when re-edited then it sound like you converted using the wrong properties.
We need to know the properties of those as well.
In fact properties of all types you are using.
--------------------------------------------------

Hi Trevor


I'm creating files for use on my PC as near possible to the original Samsung H264 format. I don't use DVD or Blue-Ray players . The Original file properties that the Samsung R10 produces are as follows : See attachment

VS4 cannot work with this format. It will not save clips without encoding first. Therefore I'm forced to encode. I've chosen the following encoding method on your advice from my previous post (this allows some flexibility if I wish to burn a disc for another person).

MPEG Transport-Stream Files
24 bits, 1920 x 1080, 25 fps
Upper Field First
(HDMV-PAL), 16:9
H.264 Video
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 17608 kbps)
Audio data rate: 256 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio, 48 KHz, 2/0(L,R)

The first stage I undertake.

Example : I take several clips of an event in Jan and then several more in Feb and March. I wish to compile these together rather than wait until the end of the year. So I load all the raw Samsung R10 files into VS4 and encode to the above Mpeg Transport Stream. Instead of 50 small files in Samsung's H264 format, I now have one m2t file. I take more video clips in June and July and encode them into one m2t file and the same again for Aug and Sept (etc...). By the end of the year I now have (for example) 8 m2t files.

I now wish to join all 8 m2t files into one large file with a basic transition between each file. Two things happen. Firstly, VS4 appears to recode the m2t files (smart render is on) and Secondly, VS4 crashes when every I attempt to join files that VS4 has previously encoded.

Here is what I've tried :

Removing the transitions
Attempted to join only two files or try all permutations to exclude a damaged file ( VS4 still crashes randomly )
Tried using various other PC's with VS4 loaded and all have the same issue
I've tried rolling Quicktime back to previous versions with no success.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

Thanks for the explanation, by the time the year is over, just how much video do you have in total?

I just don’t know why this should be happening? Although as far as I know there have been posts regarding problems with Samsung type video.
The frame rate of 24.975fps seems a little strange, why not 25.

I can only suggest you try a different template, maybe MTS using Mpeg 2 instead of H264.

Modify the template in Make Movie Templates Manager.

Otherwise you could try using Super to convert the originals to a more suitable editable format?

Very strange

As an alternative work flow, add your monthly clips to a project, do not convert, the following month add more to the same project, at the end of the year render the project, at least the original files will only have one render.
You can also render to different formats, DV-Avi or Mpeg2 from the same project giving you the option to burn a standard DVD. In fact it may be a good idea to do just that, burn a disc as an archive.

[Stwilliam]

Hi

Thanks for the explanation, by the time the year is over, just how much video do you have in total?

I just don’t know why this should be happening? Although as far as I know there have been posts regarding problems with Samsung type video.
The frame rate of 24.975fps seems a little strange, why not 25.

I can only suggest you try a different template, maybe MTS using Mpeg 2 instead of H264.

.

I've come across a more pressing problem at the moment. I've just spent around 5 days working on a final edit from raw Samsung footage and the final result is very juddery. I've tried rendering in just about every 1080 format ( it has to be 1080) and it does it regardless of any settings ?

At first I thought it was beacuse I was watching the final edit on a 46" LED, but the issue is still presetn on a 15" laptop. None of the original clips have the issue. Its only after encoding

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

I have a better understanding of your work flow, you edit some clips and render to a new file.
This is repeated throughout the year producing several video files which are subsequently combined in a new project to create the final video file.

So are these video files the first you have rendered or the completed full version, being converted twice.

Can you make sure that the problem clips have the correct properties? In particular the frame rate.
-------------------------------------
By the way, and I am sure this has been asked, when you Share Create Video File is Same as First Video Clip available?
Certainly should be for the second conversion

[Stwilliam]

Hi

I have a better understanding of your work flow, you edit some clips and render to a new file.
This is repeated throughout the year producing several video files which are subsequently combined in a new project to create the final video file.

So are these video files the first you have rendered or the completed full version, being converted twice.

The basic timeline is : Raw clips from Camorder > encode a small batch to .m2t > End of year, complie all batchs with transitions to .m2t.

Can you make sure that the problem clips have the correct properties? In particular the frame rate.

From raw to first encode they are all as per .m2t ( i.e All exactly the same as encoded by VS4)

By the way, and I am sure this has been asked, when you Share Create Video File is Same as First Video Clip available?
Certainly should be for the second conversion

Yes it is, but makes no difference. I've tried every single 1080 format including the original .m2t VS4 encoded at. It crashes every time.


I've handed all the clips over to my wife who completed the project using her more low level script method ( She's a program developer ), so for now I have completed all the jobs in hand.
___________________________________________




However, I wish to continue using VS4 but as per my previous post. I'm getting severe juddering from the encoded video. I've taken a range of clips from the following cameras :

Samsung 1080 camcorder
720 ipod touch
1080 Android camera
Nokia MP4 640 x 352 mp4

Once again, I've encoded them in VS4 with a range of templates and settings and they all have a jerky quality to them.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

Well things don’t get any better with you now having problems with all types. Especially as they will all differ in the type of compressions/properties they use.

You say “I've tried every single 1080 format including the original .m2t VS4 encoded at. It crashes every time.” Then you seem to indicate that you are able to encode the videos—I assume without crashes?
------------------------------
Are you able to use another PC to check if these files work ok.
------------------------------
I am really running out of ideas as to why you are having so many quality problems.
------------------------------
Have you re-installed Video Studio, update Direct X, update Quicktime to the latest version, yes I realise that may seem to contradict reverting to an earlier version.
-----------------------------
Samsung Camera
Did the camera come with any software, editing program of video converter programs???, if so have you installed programs that came with the camera.
Usually these programs would include codecs suitable for the videos.