Inferior quality with X4 vs. X2?

[JRosenfeld]

In PSP X4 on XP pro SP3, I don't have the problem you mention: the pixel size or dimensions and ppi of images I've tried report the same numbers in info/Exif and the 'original' in the Resize window. I've tried this with images that are 300 or 72 ppi, in both cases the correct number is given in all three places

[almac_1]

In PSP X4 on XP pro SP3, I don't have the problem you mention: the pixel size or dimensions and ppi of images I've tried report the same numbers in info/Exif and the 'original' in the Resize window. I've tried this with images that are 300 or 72 ppi, in both cases the correct number is given in all three places

Thanks for responding. Since your installation didn't seem to exhibit the problem, I tried to dig deeper to see if I could figure out why. I found a clue.

100% of the photos I'm trying to edit exhibit the problem described in my previous post. They were all taken with either a Canon Powershot SD870IS or SD940IS camera. These photos are all jpeg's straight from the camera, 180 dpi and either 3264x2448 or 4000x3000 in pixel dimensions. Image information for these photos is reported incorrectly by X4 in every case - as 72dpi rather than 180 dpi.

I then went looking to see if I could find some photos that DID NOT exhibit the problem as you apparently had observed. I found some, and it did not matter what size or resolution they were, they all reported image information CORRECTLY in X4. These photos were taken by a variety of other cameras - to name a few: Canon Powershot A590 IS, FujiFilm FinePix F480, Panasonic DMC-F27, Canon EOS 20D. Photos from these cameras ALL reported correct image info in X4. By contrast, the photos from the Canon Powershot SD870IS and SD940IS would not.

I now believe the X4 program is incorrectly interpreting the EXIF data supplied within the photos of these two Canon cameras and passing erroneous resolution data to the Image Information and Resize functions. In every case, 180 dpi photos from these cameras would be reported as 72 dpi. I think that may also be happening to Paul, who initiated this thread. I would be interested to know what camera took his pictures.

BTW, I am also using Win XP Pro, SP3. My PSP-X4 was installed about 3 days ago using a CD delivered by mail from Corel. I checked for updates after installation - Corel reported none available.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

The fact that X4 shows the edit details Re-Size and Crop tool as using 72 is not a problem, other than to confuse.
It does not change the document size of 4000 x 3000, it does not alter the original image affecting quality.

The 72 dpi is a print resolution affecting the print ratio, setting the print size in inches/cm.

View Shift + S, the top panel shows as Print Size.
If you re-size for printing make sure you deselect the “Re-Sample using” option under “Advanced”.

Changing the resolution 72 simply changes the size, it does not affect the Pixel Dimensions (document size)

Setting the resolution to 300 will not affect editing nor the quality of the image, providing the document size remains unaltered.

[almac_1]

The fact that X4 shows the edit details Re-Size and Crop tool as using 72 is not a problem, other than to confuse.

Thanks for your response, Trevor. I agree with what you said and deselecting "Re-Sample using" is a work-around for the problem. In summary, I took from what you said that X4 adds confusion and extra keystrokes that I didn't encounter with X2. I don't find that to be a very satisfying upgrade to X4.

Please address the issue of Shift+I. Image information is reported incorrectly for images from some cameras and not for others. Shift+I is fundamental to understanding the characteristics of the image one is working on. If you can't trust Shift+I to report image information correctly, then lots of subsequent mistakes could be made in the editing process.

I look forward to your thoughts on that.

[almac_1]

Image information is reported incorrectly for images from some cameras and not for others.

Sorry. I meant to add the following to my previous post:
I have images that report INCORRECTLY with Shift+I. I would be happy to send a few of these images to anyone who might be able to use them to help resolve this issue.

[Tim Morrison]

Don't get too hung up on resolution, because it doesn't mean what you appear to think it does. It has nothing to do with the quality of the image. It is only a conversion factor to determine the size of a printed image.
On screen an 800 pixel x 533 pixel image with a resolution of 72 pixels per inch will be identical to one with a resolution of 300 pixels per inch. Every one of its 426,400 pixels are identical, even if the resolution is 10,000 pixels per inch or 2.734 pixels per inch.
When you print an 800 x 533 image, the 72 ppi one will be 11.11 inches by 7.40 inches, and will look pretty ordinary... blurry, grainy, slightly pixellated.
When you print an 800 x 533 image, the 300 ppi one will be only 2.67 inches by 1.78 inches, but will be very sharp.

What happens if you use identical settings for the resize in both X2 and X4, and then save them in a lossless format like PSPIMAGE, PNG, TIFF or BMP? What if you save them as JPG, but use the JPEG Optimizer with identical settings for compression and chroma subsampling?
In other words, is the difference a result of differences in X2 and X4's resizing, or is it different settings, or is it differences in JPG conversion. (All images are converted to an uncompressed bitmap when they are opened, and re-compressed when saved as a JPG).

[brucet]

I'm away from my work computers at the moment. I had similar problems. If my memory serves my correctly I fixed the issue by re setting some options in the Preferences menu. I always work with 300dpi. For some reason x4 was changing that to 72dpi.

But then maybe I'm not remembering it that well but it's worth a look. I'll check tomorrow.

[almac_1]

Don't get too hung up on resolution, because it doesn't mean what you appear to think it does.

Attached are 3 screen shots submitted for the purpose of clarifying my problem with X4. All screens shots were taken in X4 using the same image, which was opened with the Organizer into the Manage Tab.

The first screenshot, "ScreenShot - Manage_Tab_w_EXIF_Data.jpg", is under the Mange Tab and shows the EXIF info for the image.
The second screenshot, "ScreenShot - Edit_Tab_w_EXIF_Info.jpg", is under the Edit Tab. Here Shift+1 was used to display Current Image Information and the EXIF Information Tab was selected.

OBSERVATION: The EXIF info agrees in these two screenshots and tells me the resolution of the image is 180 dpi, which is correct.

The third screenshot, "ScreenShot - Edit_Tab_w_Image_Info.jpg", is also under the Edit Tab. Here Shift+1 was also used to display Current Image Information, but in this case, the Image Information Tab was selected.

OBSERVATION: Here I'm told the the resolution of the current image is 72dpi. I'm sorry, but that is flat out wrong and X4 has a problem. X2 reports 180 dpi in all cases for this same image. Editing decisions are frequently made on the basis of the current image information. It is important, for this user, that it be reported correctly.

While creating these screenshots with X4, I was dismayed to discover that Shift+I doesn't work under the Manage Tab, which seems weird and inconvenient to me. I also noticed that under the Edit Tab, with the Crop Tool selected, the Crop Preset "Last Applied" doesn't work either.

I hope there are solutions for these anomalies out there somewhere.

BTW, my Preferences in X4 have been set to the same values as X2's to the extent possible. In General Preferences/Units, Default resolution is set to 180 pixels per inch. This setting, no matter what it is, had no impact on the obervations described above, as I would have expected.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

Its not a quality problem, but I totally agree with your screen shots………..

Each of your screen shots show the images as 3264 x 2448 Pixels, this is the original size of your image.
Viewing the information does not change this.
Adding an image to PSP does not alter the original image in any way.
Changing the DPI / PPI does not change the pixel dimensions, it does change the Print dimensions in inches. This in itself does not alter the quality of the image in any way.

Ok so we move on to editing the image, the DPI is of little use, that is till we approach the point where we select the print size, then we look at the DPI and the physical size in inches. Do you use 180 dpi to print your images, if not then you will have to re-size changing the Dpi, for the internet you would crop using the pixel dimensions ignoring the DPI altogether.

Shift+I
In Manage the info panel is shown to the right of the screen, so there is no need to Shift+I.

To note---------- I cannot compare X2 with X4, I only have X4, yes I am aware there are some differences and agree that the Exif info and the matter that X4 defaults to 72 is an issue.

[almac_1]

To note---------- I cannot compare X2 with X4, I only have X4, yes I am aware there are some differences and agree that the Exif info and the matter that X4 defaults to 72 is an issue.

Thank you for acknowledging the problem.

Shift+I
In Manage the info panel is shown to the right of the screen, so there is no need to Shift+I..

You are correct, Trevor. I was looking at photos that had no EXIF info, but had the Info pallette on the EXIF tab, where of course no information was being displayed. I see now that if I had clicked back to the General tab, basic dimension and resolution data for the image are displayed there. I humbly retract my assertion.