Paint Shop Pro 8 JPG bug?

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LindaSue
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Paint Shop Pro 8 JPG bug?

Post by LindaSue »

I discovered something very disturbing about PSP8 yesterday after all these years. PSP8 is my default PSP version and I've been using it since the private beta test. Yesterday I created an online "greeting card" for a friend and wanted to check it in various browsers. I have IE8 and Firefox on my computer and the picture looked fine. But, when I opened the card on my husband's computer, in Google Chrome, it looked terrible. There was an obvious grid of green dots all over the picture. At first I thought it was something caused by Google Chrome. Next I assumed that it was my husband's monitor or video card doing it because there is something not right about his display that causes all pictures to look very dark and yellowish green. But, only one part of my picture had the green dots on it.

So, I reopened the picture on my computer and, sure enough, if I zoomed in very close I could see those ugly green dots. At that point I started looking through some of my picture collection and found lots of others with green dots on them. It would seem that they are mostly on photographs and not so much on other types of graphics. All of the affected images are JPGs or were originally JPGs before I edited them.

I eventually worked out that PSP8 is putting the grid of green dots on photos that are saved in JPG format. I always use the lowest compression level when I save JPGs and have always used the default Chroma Subsampling setting. I assumed that the lowest compression would give the best quality results. I had no idea what Chroma Subsampling was so I left the default setting. I tried all of them them one-by-one though and they all produce the green dots; some worse than others. However, when I tried saving the same photo using PSP5, PSP7 and PSPX2, (using all default settings and the lowest compression) I got no green dots.

Was this a known issue with PSP8 and was there ever a fix or a work-around for it? It makes me sick now to think of all the thousands of pictures that I've saved with PSP8 that now have permanent green dots on them. Even though they don't show on my monitor unless I zoom in close, there's no guarantee that someone else won't see them on theirs. Luckily the green dots don't print so this problem has never affected my printed greeting cards. But, lately I've been considering doing more email and online greetings to save on postage, ink and paper but I'm having second thoughts now about how my graphics will appear on other people's screens if I have edited those graphics in PSP8. I've got a collection of thousands of pictures to use on my cards and goodness knows how many of them have been affected by this.

I don't really want to switch to X2 as my primary PSP version so for now I will save everything in PNG format. If I need to convert something to JPG, I will open it in X2 and resave it in there.

This is what the picture looked like on my husband's computer. I couldn't capture the defect using a screenshot so I had to take a photo of his screen with my camera. However, you can see what I'm talking about:

Image

Here is a closeup of the photo on my monitor after saving it using PSP8's default JPG Chroma Subsampling and a compression of 1:

Image

Here is a link to my online greeting card if you want to see how it's supposed to look:

Anniversary Card

I found the original sepia photo, changed it to greyscale to remove the green dots, and then did the hand-tinting all over again before saving it as a PNG file. So, there are no green dots on that one. If you'd like to see if you can see the green dots on your screen, I've also uploaded the old version:

Anniversary Card (with green dots)

Now that I know that the green dots are there, I can just barely make them out if I use the Zoom feature in Internet Explorer.
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wds937
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Re: Paint Shop Pro 8 JPG bug?

Post by wds937 »

I tried to reproduce your problem by screen-capturing the version of your card without the dots, pasting as a new image into PSP, then saving as a .JPG using the lowest compression with the default settings otherwise. I did this with PSP 8 and with PSP X4 Ultimate.

Close examination of both resulting files shows slight differences. If there are any green dots in the PSP 8 version, they are very, very faint--nowhere near those that showed on your card with the green dots. So, I don't think that I experienced the same problem.

What exact version of PSP 8 are you using. Mine is 8.10. I believe there was at least one update to PSP 8 that addressed issues with .JPG files, but I don't know if those issues would have been related to green dots. (It was quite some time ago).

If I get a chance, I'll look a little further at this. It is a curious problem. I also didn't try this in any of the versions between 8 and X4. Maybe I'll try those also.
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Re: Paint Shop Pro 8 JPG bug?

Post by LindaSue »

Mine is also v8.10. That should be the final patched version. I recall that Jasc mailed all registered users of PSP8 a new CD that fixed a bunch of stuff and that's what I've got installed. I did try this in X2 and got no green dots. What I haven't tried is saving a JPG in PSP8 on my husband's computer. Will give that a try when I have a chance.
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LindaSue
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Re: Paint Shop Pro 8 JPG bug?

Post by LindaSue »

wds937 wrote: Close examination of both resulting files shows slight differences. If there are any green dots in the PSP 8 version, they are very, very faint--nowhere near those that showed on your card with the green dots. So, I don't think that I experienced the same problem.
Like I mentioned, I never noticed the dots before until I saw them on my husband's computer. It turned out that the dots were there all along but they only became apparent because of the video problem on my husband's computer. I don't see them on my screen unless I zoom in very close. Even if they're not obvious, I don't like the fact that they're there in the first place. It also surprises me that I've never heard any mention of this issue with PSP8 in all these years. Surely someone else must have noticed it too. But then again, I never noticed it myself until the other day.
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LindaSue
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Re: Paint Shop Pro 8 JPG bug?

Post by LindaSue »

I just tried saving a couple of JPGs (the same photo as in the examples) on my husband's computer in PSP8 and I get the same green dots. I also found that the more times an image that has green dots is saved, the worse they get. They weren't nearly as obvious though, even on my husband's monitor, as the picture in the online greeting card. Perhaps his Google Chrome browser was also doing something to make them stand even more.
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LindaSue
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Re: Paint Shop Pro 8 JPG bug?

Post by LindaSue »

I figured out why the dots weren't as obvious on my husband's computer just now. Whatever his video problem is, it's intermittent and it wasn't messed up when I'd saved the files on his computer this morning. When I switched over to his profile from my profile, the colors went wonky again and the dots were obvious again. Looks like he either needs a new monitor or a new video card. But, that wouldn't solve the PSP8 problem that I never would have noticed if not for his video glitch.
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Re: Paint Shop Pro 8 JPG bug?

Post by MatsW »

I also own PSP 8.10. If this is correct it is horrible. However, I could not reproduce the problem although I used chroma subsampling and several different settings for compression. I also tried both normal and progressive encoding.

The images showed no green dots after saving them with the JPG format. I zoomed them but couldn't see any problem. It makes me wonder whether it's not something wrong with the camera, or the software that the pictures were made with (if not PSP8)?

By the way, when JPG images are saved several times they will deteriorate (but only if they are loaded anew every time). That's why one should not keep working images in the JPG format. However, deteriorated images can be improved with the JPG Artifact Removal command.

Mats Winther
LindaSue
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Re: Paint Shop Pro 8 JPG bug?

Post by LindaSue »

Do you all see the green dots in the example pictures that I posted in this thread? I'm starting to wonder if maybe my eyes are just more sensitive to the color green and I'm the only one who can see them. I do think it's odd though that they look to me like they form a pattern. It's not as if I see random green spots on the picture. They're in a grid format. It's also not my computer or my monitor because I see the same thing on my husband's computer. It's also odd that I don't get green dots when I save JPGs in any other version of PSP that I have. Also, when I save the same pictures in PNG, TIF or PSP format, I don't see any dots. For those reasons, I'm pretty sure that I'm not imagining them.
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Re: Paint Shop Pro 8 JPG bug?

Post by Ken Berry »

No -- you're not seeing things -- the green grid pattern is very plain to me in the first photo you posted above, though much less clear from what I can see of the original card.
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LindaSue
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Re: Paint Shop Pro 8 JPG bug?

Post by LindaSue »

Here is a screenshot of a closeup of a photo that I just took today that had no green dots on it until after I'd saved it as a JPG in PSP8. To emphasize the problem, I turned on the grid set to outline each pixel. I also adjusted the brightness and contrast to make the different color pixels really stand out. As you can see, there's more to the problem than just green dots. It's just that the green ones show the most. There's also a pattern of brown pixels and to the right and also just below each green dot is a pink dot. PSP8 is overlaying this odd pattern over every JPG. This part of the photo was originally white, by the way.

Image
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LindaSue
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Re: Paint Shop Pro 8 JPG bug?

Post by LindaSue »

Here's a screenshot of the same part of that photo saved as a JPG with PSPX2. I applied the same brightness/contrast settings to it as well.

Image
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Re: Paint Shop Pro 8 JPG bug?

Post by MatsW »

It is easy to see that there is a grid that destroys the images. I tried reproducing it again. I tried both chroma subsampling "none" and chroma subsampling "default", but no grid of dots could be seen. I checked the image at pixel level. Perhaps you should try and reinstall PSP8?

This problem is so serious that if other users had experienced it before, then the PSP developers would have been lynched if they had done nothing about it. The JPG format is immensely popular. So I begin to think it is a quaint phenomenon that only affects you. Otherwise it would have been discovered earlier. Could it be a virus?
/Mats
LindaSue
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Re: Paint Shop Pro 8 JPG bug?

Post by LindaSue »

MatsW wrote:This problem is so serious that if other users had experienced it before, then the PSP developers would have been lynched if they had done nothing about it. The JPG format is immensely popular. So I begin to think it is a quaint phenomenon that only affects you. Otherwise it would have been discovered earlier. Could it be a virus?
/Mats
Then how do you explain that the same thing happens when I save a JPG in PSP8 on my husband's computer? I suppose that Jasc may have sent me a defective CD but what are the odds that only mine was defective? I have a friend who's out of town right now who also has PSP8. When they get back I will try it on their computer and see what happens.
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LindaSue
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Re: Paint Shop Pro 8 JPG bug?

Post by LindaSue »

I also found photos that I downloaded and edited back in 2006 and I can see the same dot pattern on them. I think I had a different computer at the time, was still using Win98, and was using PSP8.
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Re: Paint Shop Pro 8 JPG bug?

Post by MatsW »

Why don't you download the PSP 8 trial and test it. I suppose you should be able to unlock it with your serial number.
http://www.brothersoft.com/paint-shop-pro-64054.html
/Mats
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