X4 - Make Movie Templates Manager and MOV.

[alexcee]

Hi Guys, I have uploaded a trial version of X4 and so far so good. I am importing canon 7d footage and so far no problem. The problem is that the "Make Movie Templates Manager" seems to be playing up when rendering to MOV MPEG4 as I cannot change the "Quality" bar of the options, meaning it does change on the template options but the rendered file is either to small and visually bad or its the other extreme where the file size is the same size as the imported file. So in otherwards the "Quality" slider has no effect only extreme left or right. I have the smart render switched off as per other posts I have been reading to try and troubleshoot. Deleteing the template and recreating it also seems to do nothing. It's like it saves the setting and does not allow further changes at all!!

The footage from the camera is 1920x1080 23.976fps. Setting also attached as temp3.

Attached is the settings for the templates. If I can't have control over the render settings, then what is the point of buying this product. I have also tried the presets and there is a noticable decline in quality especially when it comes to motion i.e pans or zoom out, they become jittery. The mov container seems not to be affected when rendered with this degradation..

Any ideas?

Thanks

[Ken Berry]

It's not very clear to me what you are trying to produce after editing. Do you deliberately want another .mov file? If so, why? Or are you after some other format e.g. AVCHD? What are you hoping to produce: a Blu-Ray disc; DVD or something else?

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

A good camera, the Canon 7D is an 18Mb image camera with video capabilities.
It can record to 4 different settings. The compression used is QuickTime h264.
As far as I know QT H264 is only available if you purchase QuickTime Pro.
If you right click on a clip in the timeline, select properties, notice the compression option within the Video Track 1 panel is empty?

I noticed you using 23.976fps, I think this is associated with NTSC type video?

Can you tell us if the camera is Pal or Ntsc version.
Where are you living?
What are you trying to make, a DVD or video for the internet?

[alexcee]

Hi Ken, Yes I am after another mov file as avchd and others like avi, mpeg2 introduce jitters into my rendered output during pans. All I am trying to achieve is to compress the output a little more. At the moment a 5 min edit is rendering to over 1.4GB in the mov container and I would like to perhaps have it around 400-500MB. As an example, what is happening now, videostudio compresses so much that the file is about 150MB, the jitters are not there, but there is a lot of digital artifacts. On the otherhand it does not even compress and that leads to a 1.4GB file.

Cheers

[alexcee]

Hi Trevor,
Yes a very good camera, but 1920x1080 is really very low res (2MP), compared to the still image quality of 18MP. I live in Australia so we use PAL. 50Hz is our power freq. The camera is also set to PAL, but we still can record in 23.976fps whether the camera set to PAL or NTSC.
As a note, it allows, once set in PAL, 1920x1080 25fps, 1920x1080 23.976, 1280x720 50fps, 640x480 50fps. NTSC 1920x1080 30fps, 1920x1080 23.976fps, 1280x720 60fps, 640x480 60fps, so it appears 24fps is neither dependent on the region, although one has to be careful with flourescent lights and the flicker if set incorrectly or extreme high motion.

This is a tricky problem, as VS will not change its settings via editing the template. I changed the res to 1280x720, and VS still rendered in the old 1080p res. If I introduce new, fresh footage and render again say with the new settings, it seems to work once and thats it. (interesting enough, I had the same problem with x2, but found closing the program and trying again seemed to work, but not in this case.) Edit the settings, close VS, restart, reload the project and render, worked no probs. I can't setup my settings accurately if I have to change footage all the time to reset whatever videostudio is doing. If the custom settings are stored somewhere, maybe deleting the files may help, but I could not find them but only the VS presets. (.ipf)

Most of us have led tv's in Australia and all are progressive scan, so region (PAL or NTSC) is no longer a problem due to the res of the panels and interlace issues. As dvd's are old technology, I am gearing up for the media centre environment which pretty much does away with plastic disks and that is becoming more common place here. As a matter of fact, I have seen a tube tv in years! So, the answer to your question is definately not DVD format on a dvd disk PAL or NTSC. We can however store hd files as a data file on the dvd disk ( from memory up to 3-4 720p 30min tv episode files) and on the media centre environment distributed via external hard drives and USB memory sticks and perhaps via internet say to Vimeo.

I have looked at the file properties in the timeline. You are right, the compression is empty. Does that mean that videostudio does not recognise it?

I do ahve quicktime pro 7.6. + the h.264 encoder from h263encoder.com, but VS does not see that, although the matrox h264 encoders are listed for AVI.

I hope this helps.

Cheers

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

When I mentioned QuickTime I was referring to the purchased version, as far as I know this will allow you to encode to Mov H264.
I don’t think I know of anyone who has bought this, the free version allows you to de-code, that is play the video.
-----------------------------
When we install Video Studio we set the TV standard, you would select Pal, this sets the default templates to use pal.
If you edit a NTSC then you will have to create your own template or use the Custom options.
Using the default templates will change the frame rate to 25fps. Effectively adding one frame per second.
This may show up as a blip when playing the rendered file.

23.976fps is a NTSC standard, I would recommend that for future recordings you set the camera to 25 or 50fps.

As we have mentioned the compression type is not shown, indicating that VS does not fully recognise the video type. If you do Share create Video file the option Same as First Clip is also greyed out.

-------------------------------

I have just run a test to render a file to:-

Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 1920 x 1080, 23.976 fps
Frame-based
Microsoft MPEG-4 Video Codec V1
PCM, 48.000 kHz, 16 Bit, Stereo

The original was 82Mb and the new one at 10 Mb is a big drop in size, the quality looks comparable, I have to say I would only use for the internet.

A similar 25 fps file converted to the standard AVCHD 1920 x 1080 P created a file of 30Mb
This looked as original, no panning but plenty of movement within the frame, looked good.

--------------------------------

I still think you are going to struggle, or at least be limited in your choices using the 23fps
Transport Stream may be the answer but for the frame rate?

[Ken Berry]

My understanding is that 23.976 (or 24) fps is both PAL and NTSC, and is used to give a video the look of being shot by a professional studio movie camera (as opposed to video camera). But whatever the case, I agree with Trevor that you are really making a rod to beat your own back with by using it. Like him, I would recommend that in future you use 25 fps.

Trevor: that's an interesting point about QT Pro. In fact, in recent weeks I have been contemplating buying the Pro version. I once owned Pro, but that was so many years ago now, I am no longer sure where the original installation file is, or whether it is updateable and usable ... Must look into it...

[aljimenez]

I want to add that panning with any digital video camera is quite a challenge. Pros use sliders on tripods for the smoothest of panning. I find that I have to be extremely slow when panning if I want a decent recording. Most of these cameras have what is called a rolling shutter which breaks straight lines if panning faster than the shutter captures the image top to bottom. You may be trying to do something not possible with digital video if you are panning too fast.

[Ken Berry]

I would certainly agree with Al on this, and in fact have a proper floating head tripod for my own (slow) pans. But I suspect that in this thread, the main problem relates to changing the format -- though what I call panning "shimmer" or blur may be a contributing factor.

[alexcee]

Hi Trevor,

Yes, I did have the basic version and found that it would render to the template I created, but I had no control over the quality slider. As an interesting note, in the compression I selected MPEG-4 and then I rendered. Results huge file, not what I want. I went in and changed the compression to sorenson video 3. Rendered and checked the compression. Aha!, mediainfo still telling me Mpeg-4, VS did not change to sorenson video 3, but still stuck on mpeg-4. In other words VS did not update the compressor change I saved to the custom template. This is my whole problem..I did purchased the full version 7.6 qt pro to see what would happen, but still the same problem. (waste of Money) As it turns out the sorenson video 3 MOV encoder performed faultlessly for my footage and I did have control over the quality slider, better than any other VS preset I experimented with. The jitters disappeared. I shall stick to that.

I have some footage for anyone to experiment and see what I mean by creating a custom mov template and changing setting, VS just does not register these changes in the presets, especially when changing the compressor and quality slider.

I have also checked the compression type of the file in the timeline and VS does not seem to recognise the compression type and the "Same as First clip" is greyed out. True true. I suppose this will need to be addressed by Corel with a patch to accommodate the canon DSLR range.

Thanks for everyones help, very much appreciated.

[alexcee]

Hi Ken,
Yes 25fps is definitely something I use quite regularly for the shoots etc. I did purchase the Pro version 7.6 to avoid the later version qt errors associated with VS as I was one having general X2 crashes importing mov's. As a result the encoders for mov were unchanged and no H264. I do know for a fact I can encode the work back to MPEG-4 format with AVC for video wrapped inside the mov container. The purchase I feel was a waste of money.

Thanks for your help, very much appreciated. As a side issue, have you ever come across X4 error during render "Unable to add samples(os err=50)"

Cheers

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

Thanks Ken for the 23.976 fps update. Converting this to Pal 25fps is bad enough but to convert to NTSC would add one frame in five.

A little bit more about the camera.
The Canon 7D is an Image camera with video capabilities. It is not a dedicated video camera.
Unfortunately during recordings the cameras focus is locked, it focuses as you press the record button then its fixed.
Its not a camera that I would use for serious video recordings. Close up video recordings would easily go out of focus, at a distance the depth of field would keep most things in focus.

I used it with a 400mm lens, fixed on a tripod set at a fixed distance produced good video.
A bit of wildlife video.
Panning would introduce different focal points with the result of out of focus.

Don’t get me wrong the camera produces very good quality video, but be careful with the fixed focus.

[Ken Berry]

Thanks Alex for the info about QT Pro ... though like you I suspect that doesn't leave us anywhere constructive...