Rendering AVI files

[wkadams]

Hi
I am using VS X4 on windows 7. I have an .AVI file which I captured from a VHS tape so it includes sound. The video is 105 minutes long and the file size is 21.9 GB which is huge. I brought it into a project, edited as necessary including making adjustments to the sound in the AVI file, added titles, transitions, and an additional sound track. When I render this project to make a video file it takes a very long time and the resulting .wmv file is huge (11.2GB). I hate to think what it would be to make a DVD. Is there some thing I should do differently to avoid the rendering time and the size of the files? Thanks for all your help.

WK Adams

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

How did you capture the footage from the VHS recorder, the program used would have allowed you to set the capture properties.

If you are intending to create a DVD then try capturing to Mpeg2 DVD compliant settings.
Using a bit rate of say 5000 would be quite suitable for the VHS capture. About (3 gb per hour)

You can capture to Avi but need to set the compression, DV, Microsoft Video, etc 13 Gb per hour

If you tell us if you use Pal or Ntsc then we may be able to further settings

Right click a video file and select properties, what are they?

[wkadams]

Hi Trevor

Thanks for your reply. I really appreciate the help. Let's see if I can answer your questions.

I captured the tape using Video Studio. At the time I was running X2. I have a Canopus unit to digitize the analog data from the VHS player.

Yes, my intent all along was to create a DVD so I could capture an MPEG 2 file. If I do that, can the volume be adjusted in the VS project as it can with an AVI file. This particular file needs many different volume adjustments throughout the video. This points to an area where I struggle. VS help explains how to do things and what the options are. However, what I lack is the "what and why" for doing things. I am very pleased with many of my projects in VS but I am sure there are better ways to do many of the things involved. So I appreciate your help

I am using NTSC

Not sure what all you want for properties but here is what I think you need.
Video
Length 1:49:04
Frame Width 720
Frame Height 480
Data Rate 28794kbps
Total bitrate 29818kbps
Frame rate 29 frames/second

Audio
Bit rate 1024kbps
Channels 2(stereo)
Audio sample rate 32 kHz

Thanks again for your time.

WK Adams

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

I would like to confirm that you have captured to DV-Avi this would be 13 Gb per hour.

I would think you had AVI as the capture format option, If you had DV as an option then no problems.
Otherwise you choose the Options cogwheel to set the capture compression using Microsoft Video or DV Video Encoder-Type 1

Your captured Video Files property window should indicate Microsoft Avi files – Open DML and DV Video Encoder-Type 1

DV-Avi is a very good format to work with and if this is what you have captured I would continue using that.
------------------------------------
If you are concerned about the size then for future work…
Your source is VHS Player you may get good results using Mpeg2 .
From the capture window choose DVD as the capture format this will give you compliant video files suitable , modify the bit rate to match the length of the movie.

As a guide
8000 kbps for 60 minutes
6000 kbps for 90 minutes
4000 kbps for 120 minutes
So I guess 105 minutes needs 5000kbps

[wkadams]

Hi Trevor

Thanks again for your time.

When I select properties it says the file type is Video Clip (avi).

I went back and hooked up my VCR and Canopus box. Then I went into VS to capture.

It lists the source as AVC Compliant DV Device
For format, I have two choices, DV or DVD. If I choose DV I get an avi file whose file type is listed on properties as Video Clip (avi). If I choose DVD I get an mpeg file whose file type is listed on properaties as Movie Clip (mpg).

If I look under capture options on Video Studio, its says the video properties are DV Type 1 when I select DV as the format. I have the choice to choose DV Type 2. When selecting DVD it says the video properties are DVD NTSC LPCM HQ and there are many other choices.

For this current project I captured in DV type 1 even though the file properties just shows Video Clip (avi).

Since starting this string, I have created a DVD and was able to get the project onto a DVD. That's the good news.

Where I got concerned was in making a wmv video file. My reason for doing that is that they are usually much smaller and I can share them with my cousin who I am doing this for across dropbox. Understanding that the quality of the wmv file is not good but works for joint editing. This has worked well for earlier projects. This was the first project where I used an avi file with embedded sound. And the wmv file was huge. Much to big to share. So that was my concern.

Like I say I was able to make a DVD but it cut out the colloboration step we have been doing.

One other question. You mention about modifying the bit rate when doing mpeg. The only way I see to do that is to choose a different template under video properties options on VS. That way seems to be hit or miss, I just have to choose a template and see what the bit rate is. I must be missing something, any ideas.

Bottom line. I think I am capturing correctly as an avi DV type 1 file. I will probably continue to use that format unless you have a good reason for using mpeg. I don't see any options to change any thing except choose type 2. I am able to complete the project and make a DVD. So my only remaining concern is about the size of the wmv file which I use for colloboration. Any ideas for that?

Thanks for all your help.

[Ken Berry]

To give us the Properties we need, you right click on the AVI file *inside* Video Studio -- either with the clip in the timeline or in the library window. And please include ALL the Properties here. However, Canopus capture devices were invented to capture DV/AVI, so I think that -- and the size of your file -- are a pretty clear indication that that is what you have captured.

Like Trevor, I believe DV/AVI is the best format to edit, but if space is a consideration, capturing to mpeg-2 might help if the Canopus allows it. However, we have no idea what sort of power your computer has and it would be useful if you could fill in those details as well. If it is an older computer, for instance, it could have difficulty capturing directly to mpeg-2. The DVD setting of the Canopus will give you that.

But whatever you do, forget about converting the AVI to WMV. That will cause a loss of some quality, and when you have to convert it back to mpeg-2 to burn to DVD, that will be another generation of loss of quality.

EDIT: you were typing your latest post as I was typing mine!

Regardless of the (possible) benefits of joint editing, my comments about converting to wmv stand. It is not a particularly easy format to work with, and the quality loss is a significant factor. But it is up to you: if the collaboration outweights quality concerns, then go right ahead. But to reduce the size of the wmv, you would need to choose a smaller size format for the wmv. But that would mean again a significant decrease in quality.

*** for the DV, no, you don't have to adjust the properties in capture. Leave it at Type 1, and all the properties are then fixed. Though I have never had problems with Type 2 DV, some users have with VS, so best to stick with type 1 -- they are identical in quality anyway, but just handle the audio is a slightly different way.

As for changing the properties of the mpeg-2 you would be producing, if the project is 105 minutes long, then according to that list Trevor provided as a general rule of thumb, you would need to use a bitrate of around 5000 kbps... And to get that, you would choose Share > Create Video File > Custom. Then you would choose mpeg-2 as the format type, and click the Options button. And on the Compression Tab, you would lower the bitrate from the default 8000 kbps to 5000 kbps. You would also need to change the default Upper Field First to Lower Field First since DV is Lower Field First, and a basic rule of video editing is that you must maintain the original Field Order throughout a project. In other words, the mpeg-2 must also be Lower Field First.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

Field Order

I had always assumed the field order is derived from the source type either analogue or digital.

Generally DV-Avi source is digital, (from a camera) but having a VHS as source may create a DV-Avi with Upper Field.
I have no way to test this as I don’t have a capture card that allows DV capture.

WK Adams ……This is where you come in

Unfortunately when you right click the clip and select properties, the window does not show the field order.
However if you set Settings -- Preferences - Show Messages when inserting first video……………..
Start a new project……
When you insert a clip to the timeline a window opens, under Details (right hand Panel) should indicate the field order. After accepting the window the Project Properties will change to match and show the order.

Just interested to know……

I am pretty certain if you captured to Mpeg2 that the order would be Upper.

Whatever, the field order is of your original video file is to be used thought.