X4 vs X2 DVD Disk Space Calculation

[mark9422]

I appreciate the discussion however my question remains unanswered. Why are the two programs calculating the disc space very differently. They should, at the very least, be quite close to one another.

And, I can assure you:

***In VS X2, I have produced a 90 minute AVCHD disc with stunning HD quality at 1920x1080.. with a bit rate of 15,000---many transitions and music beds in Dolby 5.1. The disc was a DVD dual layer. I burned the disc on a standard DVD burner although after burning the disc, the DVD burner could no longer read it. It would then only work in my blu-ray player.

(The reason I prefer using dual layer DVDs over Blu-rays is simply cost. I have since purchased a blu ray burner but have only made one disc so far and with success. It was the disc that came with the unit)

***My current project is 90 minutes (so far! I have to edit some stuff out--LOL) and I have upgraded to VS X4. When attempting to burn a test disc --AVCHD, 1920x1080, bit rate 15,000 (same as last year's project) in X4-on a dual layer DVD disc--it tells me the project won't fit and that I am way way over on content. If I open the project in X2,(I have been saving the project as both X2 and X4) it fits with room to spare....same settings.

I know you're thinking..."why not just use X2?" The answer is because X2 does not always like working with HD video and crashes all too often when editing...very frustrating.

I have not yet tried just creating a file and then transferring to disc as suggested above. I hope to give it a go this week and will report back.

If you have any other suggestions, in advance, I appreciate your input!

Mark

[39_Steps]

[Edit]
Disregard. Out to lunch.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

Interesting reading

I do not think the problem is just associated with the burner module and the conversion of HD files?

A while ago I tested a few renders comparing X2 and X4, the files were destined for the internet so I chose a variety of formats, QT, Mpeg4 , Flash Wmv etc to find a difference in sizes between X2 and X4.
I was looking for the best quality with the smallest file sizes.
X2 always created the smaller size…….

Now this was quite a while ago, the grey matter being jogged after reading this post.
Not sure if I still have the files on the pc.

It would be interesting if you were to convert the projects before going to Create Disc.
Use X2 and X4 to again compare the sizes of the rendered projects.

[mark9422]

Thanks Trevor...glad I'm not the only one...thought I was loosing my marbles and was questioning my dilemma..
I will do the tests this week in between work and taxiing my kids all over creation

Does Corel monitor this forum? If so, this is the perfect opportunity for them to chime in as I am sure they know the answer.

Thanks again!

Mark

[GLOBETROTTER]

And, I can assure you:

***In VS X2, I have produced a 90 minute AVCHD disc with stunning HD quality at 1920x1080.. with a bit rate of 15,000---many transitions and music beds in Dolby 5.1. The disc was a DVD dual layer.

Mark

I'm still not convinced that is possible...and would love to view that normal DVD disc! That would mean that you are fitting 45 minutes of 1920 X 1080 full HD plus 'many tansitions & Dolby music beds' on each layer of the disc (equiv to normal single layer disc). I'd love to be able to replicate such a feat and maintain 'stunning HD quality'...

For what it is worth, the maximum amount of highest quality SD Pal format plus transitions and music, I'm able to fit within a 4.7GB DVD disc is approx 1 hour total video.

[mark9422]

LOL Globetrotter....tough crowd here

I will reload last year's project and take some screen shots for you so you can see what I said was true. I just have to figure out how to do that...it might be easier to email the screen shots to you...but let me work on it.

Mark

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Mark

Alt + PrtSc (print screen) will copy the active window to your clipboard
Open an image editor and paste, Ctrl+V
Save the image then attach to the post, lower left whilst writing the post.

[mark9422]

will do ...
thank you!

[39_Steps]

Here is a page from the Canon HF-100 camcorder manual showing average recording times vs. file size. The HF-100 was a first generation camera capable of only 1080i x 1920 AVCHD @ 60fps. (17Mbps)

This camera was of the same generation as Visual Studio 11. I bought VS 11.5+, but never used it because I never upgraded to a computer that could handle AVCHD at 1920x1080.

Edit: This attachment is primarily in reference to the title of the thread, which is "X4 vs X2 DVD Disk Space Calculation. However, it is also my first screen capture attachment attempt in the VS X4 forum.

[Ken Berry]

AS for the screen shots mentioned above, I suspect Mark was talking about snapshots of individual frames to show the quality of the final video rather than anything else. But it would be useful if he can confirm this.

[mark9422]

I needed to know how to "print screen", save the file and post here to I can prove to Globetrotter that my project of 90 mins will fit on a dual layer DVD at 1920x1080 res AVCHD. I'm away from my home machine now and will get it done tomorrow. This is getting exciting!

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Mark

I have been running a few tests regarding AVCHD sizes in X2 and X4
At the moment I am burning a AVCHD to disc using X2.
For some reason I cannot burn to a folder using X2???

I think its X2 that’s at fault in that it is producing a lower file size when rendering in the burner module.
I have some tests to complete and will get back to you.

However if you complete your projects by creating a video file first (avchd compliant) the burner modules will not render the video again the originals being used to burn the disc, sizes will not be altered. This goes for both X2 and X4.
By the way, creating the video file using X2 and X4 produce comparable file sizes.

Burner Module
If X2 - X4 has to render the files it uses the properties under the Options Cogwheel.
You can force it to render by un-checking Do Not Convert Compliant files.
It will render if you Share Create Disc with files in the edit timelines, effectively you are adding a VSP.

Now if you add a compliant video file, set the conversion properties to match the video file.
Then deselecting Do Not Convert Compliant files should not change the file sizes showing in the lower bar.
Do this with X4 and the sizes remain similar
Do this with X2 and the rendered size reduces dramatically. This I cannot get my head round, it is rendering like for like, the resultant files should be the same size.

Still waiting for the disc to complete burning?

[Trevor Andrew]

The two files were created using the same source video file, one using X4 and the other X2.

As far as I know I have used the same settings, so why the file size difference?

click image for larger view

[mark9422]

My method....(almost always used)

Share, Create Disc, AVCHD, then change settings to max out picture quality but always selecting Dolby 5.1.

I hardly ever select Create Video File. I did once though as I was having issues with a render. After creating the file, I loaded it into a new time line and re-rendered without issue but that was probably the only time I needed to create a file. Oh, well, I should admit that after creating my disc, I DO create a file for backup but hardly ever use it for rendering purposes.

I'm at the office again but will post those promised screen shots here later today.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Mark

If you create a video file first to AVCHD standards
Then start a new project, just to clear the timeline.
Share Create Disc – Avchd--Add video file.

The burn process will not convert the video as its compatible, your file sizes will be the same.
However if you force the render by de-selecting Do Not Convert Compliant video files, then the conversion will take place using the properties under the Options cogwheel.
Now assuming these are the same as the video file then again the sizes should match, Using X2 they do not match, X2 produces smaller file sizes.
-----------------------

From the edit Timeline………….
With files in the edit timeline, if you do Share Create Disc—you are adding a VSP to the burner module.
This will force a render and convert the VSP creating smaller file sizes than it should, this is why you are able to add more footage to a AVCHD disc using X2.
-----------------------
Earlier this week I added nearly 2 hours of files to the burner modules, they used 16000kbps.
Using X4 I had to reduce the kbps to approx 900kbps to fit the disc.
----------------------

I have no idea why X2 is reducing these file sizes