X4 always says the jpeg is at 72 dpi

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df
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Re: X4 always says the jpeg is at 72 dpi

Post by df »

If DPI were such an issue then how is it that grandma can take their cameras memory card into the local drug store and print whatever size they want? Most cameras DPIs are set to 72, 96, 200, or 350 DPI. Many cameras are not the same DPI yet the prints all seam to come out just fine.
Answer: Because it's an irrelevant number.

In the beginning days of computers and printing you basically specified the print size by giving the computer a file x by y, and a DPI, and it would spit out the print. That's not a very efficient way for printers to manage print size. Welcome to post 1995, printers don't care any more. Your printing service or printing program will resize whatever DPI you give it to match the printer anyways. Most printers that you'd use on a photograph are 1200 DPI or higher, but even that is misleading. Each dot is a specific color, Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, or Black (CMYK). They combine to make a color. Higher end printers use even more inks to offer more variations, or rather smoother variations. The dots are not all a uniform size, so there is overlap as well. And the printing program lays out the ink dots with the yellow on the bottom and the black on the top. My point is that it's a very complicated procedure that computer, software, and printer manufacturers have down to a science. It's also something that you can't affect very much. Change your DPI all day long and your 1000 pixel wide print set to 2 inches will print at something similar to 500 DPI, even when you set the file to 72 DPI, 300 DPI, 5,000,000 DPI, or even 10 DPI. And even that 500 DPI print isn't printing at 500 DPI, it's printing at whatever native DPI the printer prints at. It's physically impossible for it to do it any other way.

That isn't to say that if you set the program to save at 300 DPI that it shouldn't save at 300 DPI. But in the big scheme of things it's such an insignificant part of the whole picture. I really wouldn't get bent out of shape over it.
You'll also run across services that you need to send files too, and they'll specify ___ DPI. Most of the time it's just easier to comply than try to argue with them, but frankly if they can't figure out how to use a file with a different DPI than what you supply they need to do some retraining. Either that or they have some archaic software/hardware that is just fickle, but in that case they really should know how to work around it. Imagine taking your car to a mechanic and they say "sorry, can't work on this car. The spedometer says kilometers per hour and not miles per hour". You'd be wondering if the mechanic actually knew what they were doing. It's much the same thing here. If you're driving at 80 kilometers per hour how much faster are you going to get to your destination than a car driving at 50 miles per hour? Not by much.

As for webviewing, your OS and browser will rescale any DPI to 72 DPI if the html is set to allow full sized images. If it's not, and there's a size specified, it will rescale the image to preview at a given size on the screen. The image will still be 72 DPI, but smaller or larger to meet the physical size. This happens no matter what DPI you set the image too. But even that is misleading. Most monitors don't display at 72 DPI, most display higher but some display lower. So the driver for your monitor in your OS converts the image that your OS converted to 72 DPI to match whatever DPI your monitor displays at. Look at these two images
Image Image
Which one's bigger? What's the difference?
One is set to 1000 DPI, the other is set to 10 DPI. Can you really say there's a difference?

My point is.... quit worrying about it. It's irrelevant. As long as the pixel count doesn't change you haven't had any destructive affects. Yes I want Corel to fix it, but I'm not going to jump up and down about it either.
Regards, Dan

"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast."
Trevor Andrew

Re: X4 always says the jpeg is at 72 dpi

Post by Trevor Andrew »

Hi Dan

I think you may have missed the point, we are not comparing the quality of the images but the way PSP displays the images.

Scinerio….
I create/edit a few images to print at say 10in x 8in I set the Ppi at 300, full quality printing.
The actual document size would be 3000px x 2400px. That’s just mathematics.

I decide to print tomorrow, so I close the program.

When I open the image again, I immediately go to print, now the print size is 41.6 in x 33.3in Wow its using 72ppi

The program has displayed the image using 72 rather than 300.
Now I have to resize the image before printing.
==================
If you open your edited images and the program displays the image info using anything other than 72 then you don’t have a problem.

If you open every image and the program shows the image using 72 then you have a problem

Having to re-size my images, every image, every time I open in PSP is a real issue.

You said “quit worrying about it. It's irrelevant” I think its a real issue........

How do your images open in PSP? Using 72 dpi?????????

And I doubt if your local drug store is using PSP
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Re: X4 always says the jpeg is at 72 dpi

Post by Tadjio »

I have been doing some comparisons between X3 and X4.
I started with a camera image @ 72 dpi and resized it to 300 dpi at the same pixel size (100%).

This affects 5 main areas:
  • 1) Edit Mode Image Information - this always shows the correct dpi (corresponding to Windows File Properties)
    2) Resize Resolution - typically 72.000 pixels/inch
    3) Print Size Width & Height - using Scale 100% Center on Page
    4) Crop Resolution - when using Free Form
    5) Organizer Palette (Manage Mode) - typically 5184x3456 @ --- dpi
With X3 all the above information shows correctly for the 72 dpi and the 300 dpi Images.

With X4 the only correct one is the Image Information (EXIF Information)

In X4 manage Mode, the Organizer Palette never shows a dpi (resolution) figure (just '---' or 0 dpi)
(I believe this is because the Organizer Database (ImageDB.db) Metadata Table is empty)

With X4 Resize, Print and Crop always assume an Image @ 72 dpi (pixels/inch)
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Re: X4 always says the jpeg is at 72 dpi

Post by Simone Corel UK »

I just tested the problem again and it seems to me that X4 has "only" a problem to show the correct dpi but its saving engine itself works fine. I remember that we had the same problem in one of the previous versions and it was fixed with a patch.

Because my camera saves only with 72dpi, I created a 300dpi image in Photoshop and saved as normal .jpg (not for web, but using "Save as").

I opened this image in PSPX4 and it brings up the 72dpi. I save it again under "Save as" without any changes. I only gave it a new title.

I reopened it in Photoshop and it's still 300dpi.
at-the-end-it-is-fine.jpg
I work for the Corel UK Support. I will not give technical support through this forum and my answer is only related to this thread.
Trevor Andrew

Re: X4 always says the jpeg is at 72 dpi

Post by Trevor Andrew »

Hi Simone/Tadjio

I have to agree with you, PSP does create/save the image with the appropriate resolution.
But for some reason prefers to use 72 by default to display.
You can view the information (Shift+I) and it will show the correct DPI, but the re-size (Shift+S) still shows 72.

Viewing images made with PSP in Photoshop display as ok, so PSP is doing the job of creating the files correctly.
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Re: X4 always says the jpeg is at 72 dpi

Post by Tadjio »

trevor andrew wrote:Hi Simone/Tadjio
I have to agree with you, PSP does create/save the image with the appropriate resolution.
But for some reason prefers to use 72 by default to display.
You can view the information (Shift+I) and it will show the correct DPI, but the re-size (Shift+S) still shows 72.
Viewing images made with PSP in Photoshop display as ok, so PSP is doing the job of creating the files correctly.
I confirm that PSP X4 is writing the Resolution (dpi) correctly. It can be checked in Windows Explorer File Properties.
I disagree that it is using 72 by default to display only - it is calculating based on that figure too in Resize, Print and Crop :(
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Re: X4 always says the jpeg is at 72 dpi

Post by bobm185 »

I have the same issue with X4 - it shows a 300ppi photo as 72ppi. I just happened to open a vertical/portrait photo that was set in camera to view as vertical, and X4 shows it correctly as 300ppi. A horizontal photo shows as 72ppi. Also a photo taken in the vertical position but not tagged to view vertical automatically will read as 72ppi. Go figure!

I have had this issue as an open support case since September 21. I just updated it tonight with the vertical photo info. Hopefully Corel will figure it out - and we know they can do it correctly - as they have been doing from X3 and all earlier versions.
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Re: X4 always says the jpeg is at 72 dpi

Post by alcsew »

I have been waiting patiently for this issue to be fixed as it has me insane! I won't even use this version till its fixed and so am still using 3x. For something that has been "escalate" when can a fix be expected?

Leesha
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Re: X4 always says the jpeg is at 72 dpi

Post by Simone Corel UK »

when can a fix be expected?
Soon!
I work for the Corel UK Support. I will not give technical support through this forum and my answer is only related to this thread.
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Re: X4 always says the jpeg is at 72 dpi

Post by bobm185 »

It's a strange thing. I opened a 29ppi photo (from an on-line pic of some slides I sent off to a commercial scan service) and the Info icon tool showed 29ppi. When I got the scanned file it correctly showed as 3000ppi. So if 29ppi and 3000ppi can be read correctly , why can't a 300ppi photo be read correctly? Makes no sense to me. Bob
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Re: X4 always says the jpeg is at 72 dpi

Post by hipshot13 »

Simone Corel UK wrote:
when can a fix be expected?
Soon!
Yeah right! All squabbling over PPI and DPI aside the simple truth is the program is not working as it should. There are almost always work arounds that can be found but this does not correct the issue. It only complicates it.

I tried X3 and it was full of bugs so I waited for a update which never really came. I switched back to X2 and waited. Did they come out with a solid version update??? No they came out with a new version and expected those of us who bought X3 to pay again for another buggy product. I wasted money on the X3 upgrade which I have never used. Lesson learned.

Today I bought and downloaded Adobe elements 10. If I am going to be forced to give up my old product which I was very well versed with and learn an Adobe's interface I might as well learn on the real product.
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Re: X4 always says the jpeg is at 72 dpi

Post by Simone Corel UK »

Today I bought and downloaded Adobe elements 10. If I am going to be forced to give up my old product ...
To be honest, I also use more than PSP, because all programs have their useful and not so useful workflow and tools. There are things in Photoshop, which I need, but PSP doesn't have, on the other hand Photoshop doesn't have to offer what PSP has.
As nice as the big Photoshop is (forget the Elements), at the end, if I edit a single image, I come always back to PSP. I only use both for web.
Photoshop doesn't have a tool which works identically like High Pass Sharpen, which works excellent after I reduced the size for an image and pixels are pressed together. When I save an image for web, Photoshop saves 20- 30% bigger in KB size than PSPX4. When I crop an image and I change my mind, PSP allows me to change it, Photoshop doesn't, I have to start from scratch. When I change a tool's size using the scroll wheel, Photoshop shows changes only every 5 pixels, and pixel by pixel do I only get, when I zoom in to the (almost) highest zoom factor.

I think, to expect that a program has to work like an "all-rounder" is already the limitation :)
Last edited by Simone Corel UK on Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: X4 always says the jpeg is at 72 dpi

Post by 39_Steps »

hipshot13 wrote: Yeah right! All squabbling over PPI and DPI aside the simple truth is the program is not working as it should. There are almost always work arounds that can be found but this does not correct the issue. It only complicates it.
I just bought and installed PSP X4 yesterday without a trial, so I'm trying to get used to black on black (never happen) while reading the posts on this forum.

The "72 dpi" issue came up on the PhotoImpact forum around the time of the release of PI X3, IIRC. I delved into it because numbers interest me more than pictures. Seems like Adobe didn't necessarily get the dpi right in its metadata (whatever right is when refering to dpi), but PhotoImpact might just erase the metadata containing dpi if you weren't careful.

PSP X4 users with dpi concerns might want to search the PhotoImpact forum on the subject, circa 2008.
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Re: X4 always says the jpeg is at 72 dpi

Post by JRosenfeld »

This behaviour also occurs for me, on XP pro SP3.
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Re: X4 always says the jpeg is at 72 dpi

Post by JRosenfeld »

Fixed in SP1 for me. Now ppi is recorded correctly. I have had to reset it fior those images for which, after saving, it had been set to 72. But once corrected, the value sticks when saving/reopening.
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