MOV file to MPG or to VS for edit or to make DVD

[Ilene]

I'm having a problem using a video file created in FInal Cut. A friend of mine made a movie that I need to use to either edit or more importantly just create a DVD with in VIdeo Studio.

I had him convert the MOV file to MPEG 2 The file, both video and audio, plays perfectly in WIndows MEdia Player, but when you bring it into Corel it doesn't see any audio.

The SAME MPG file shows these properties in Corel
FILE
File Format - MPEG-2
File Size - 1.1179,411kb
Duration: 685.152 seconds

VIDEO
Video Type MPEG-2Video, Lower Field First
Total Frames: 20, 534 fames(s)
Attributes: 24 bits, 720x480, 16:9
Frame Rate: 29.97 frames/sec
Data rate: Variable bit rate ( max 20000 kbps)

AUDIO
Audio type : none
Total Samples:
Attributes
Layer
Bit Rate


AND these properties in Windows Media Player
Length 11:25
Bit Rate -
Media Type - Video
Aspect Ratio - 16x9
Audio Codec - MPEG audio Decoder
Video Codec - Intervideo Video Decoder

So clearly you see that Windows can recognize the audio component that Corel does not see

As an alternative I had him give me the uncompressed MOV file. That file had these properties as shown in Corel ( right clicked file in Corel)

FILE
File Format - Quick Time Movie Files
Movie Size - 720 x 480
Duration: 685.152 seconds
Track Counts 1 video, 1 sound

VIDEO Track 1
Compression DV/DVCPRO-NTSC
Attributes: 24 bits, 720x480
Total Frames 20, 534 frames
Frame Rate - 29.970
Duration 685, 1532 seconds
start at 0.000 sec onds

Sound Track 1
Compression - 16-bit Little Endian
Attributes: 48.000kHZ, 16 bits, Stereo
Total Samples 32,887,254
Duration 685.151 seconds
Start at 0.000

When I took the MOV file into VS X4 --- it worked fine on the time line. I then wanted to burn a DVD. I selected File, New, Share, Create DVD, added the media to the project, for disc templatemanager, I chose best mpeg 2 lpcm, for MPEG properties for file conversion I customized the settings to
Encoder driver - Ulead MPEG NOW encoder, frame type lower field first, 720 x 480, 16:9, I borught the quality under media type up to 100%, video data rate 8000, variable, and the audo to LPCM.... The DVD burned but the file LOST a lot of quality,.... even played with less quality on preview as soon as you brought it into the CREATE DVD window.


Any suggestions as to whether the properties use to convert MOV to MPG were correct? ANy ideas why Corel doesn't see the audio on that file and windows does? ANy suggestions on creating DVDs from MOV files? Did I set the DVD up correctly?

Interestingly.... he created a DVD for me, and I could "rip" the file into Corel and it created a perfect MPG that was 1/3 of the size of the original mpg he gave me.

Also, Windows DVD maker, a basic program read the mpeg he created and burned a perfect DVD with AUDIO and VIDEO that Corel could not. SOmething fishy or something wrong?

Need aolution if anyone can help.

thanks
Ilene

[Ken Berry]

I suspect it is because your friend converted the original to mpeg-2 but using mpeg layer 2 audio. Corel appears to have dropped support for this format in at least X4 and I think X3 as well. It would thus be a matter of asking your friend to convert to mpeg-2 using either LPCM or Dolby audio, both of which Corel uses.

As for your own use of the MOV file, I would have first done the conversion in the Editing module (Share > Create Video File > DVD) to produce a DVD-compatible mpeg-2 of your project. (I would use the properties would probably have left the quality slider alone as well at its default 70 or 80% -- it significantly extends the time taken and improves the quality only very marginally if you use 100%.) Then I would create a New project, but not bother giving it a name. The objective is just to clear the timeline. Then I would open the burning module (Share > Create Disc > DVD) and its timeline should be empty. Then I would insert your new mpeg-2 in the burning timeline and proceed from there.

[Ilene]

I think Final Cut only offers MPEG audio as the audio option.... when converting the file as a whole. The audio can be dolby or other, but would need to be done as a second track and that would get me back to rendering the whole thing out... and extra step!

per your second suggestion, if I put the MOV on the timeline, and go Share - create dvd - what option should I choose, DVD video 16:9 or MPEG2 720x480?

This is incredible that Corel doesn't support this audio codec anymore!! I no longer have the older versions of Video Studio on my computer, I only have X4? If I were to re=install X2 on the same computer, would they both work?? Would I mess anything up in X4? Or would I need to uninstall X4, install X2 and then install X4 again??

[Ken Berry]

First, I think they may have dropped it because it wasn't really used much anymore, and moreover was never part of the NTSC international standard for DVDs. Few NTSC stand-alone DVD players could play it. But it still seems silly to me since it ignored the fact that mpeg layer 2 audio has always been part of the PAL DVD standard and all PAL players can play it... But anyway, there you are.

As for your output format, if the project is an hour or less long, then I would choose Share > Create Video File > DVD. If it is longer, then you would choose Custom and make sure all the properties are the same as in the DVD template, but you adjust the bitrate down.

And you can have various versions of VS on the one computer and all work independently (although you can only open one at a time). I have X2, X3 and X4 on this computer, for instance. But remember: if you reinstall X2 and are working in a Win 7 environment, don't forget to add the Win 7 compatibility patch.

[Ilene]

file is only 12 minutes long... so Share - create video file - dvd and then what option under DVD??? that is what I was asking you. Mpeg 720 x 480, or DVD video 16:9 or other?? I don't normally work in this format. If I make a project, I go share - create video file --- and then as you said start a new project w a clean timeline to creat the dvd, and then I add the media file. please lmk which DVD option you think is best.

I also recall that I can have multiple versions of VS on my computer, and that they can't be open at the same time... the question is, now that X4 is installed, if I install X2 for instance, will there be any issues in compatibility as far my registry goes, or codec go or anything of that nature, or do they just install independantly. My computer crashed as I told you some weeks ago, so this is all such a nuiscance! lmk... thanks

Ilene

[Ken Berry]

You actually said

if I put the MOV on the timeline, and go Share - create dvd

There is of course no such choice, and it is moreover susceptible of being interpreted as jumping straight to Create Disc. That is why I specified Share > Create Video File > DVD. But which one you choose of course depends on what your original file is -- 16:9 or 4:3, and whether it is going to be a slideshow or video and whether you want Dolby 5.1 or not. I would forget about the 720 x 480 one.

Now that I think about it, though, I think you would have to choose Share > Create Video File > Custom because the default templates for DVD use upper field first and you need to use Lower Field First since your original video was DV/AVI which is always LFF. And of course you must use LFF throughout a single project if that is the case. So in Custom use all the properties you find in the default DVD template, but just change UFF to LFF.

And I have already said different versions operate independently. They have separate registry entries and have never appeared to interfere with each other.

[Ilene]

sorry -- my TYPO --- it is Share - create video file - DVD --- and yes there are options under DVD> The originally file though was not DV/AVI -- it is MOV 16:9

I will go with custom and see what happens... I chose lower field first, 16:9, LPCM and increase the quality slider

curious about this "video" versus "slide show " option --- what does that do... I use mostly photos and always creat video using custom settings... does the slide show option handle images better?

thanks

[Ken Berry]

Yes, but MOV is merely a wrapper extension for a variety of formats, and the original video was DV/AVI in Final Cut Pro... So LFF it must be.

With Slideshows, you don't use either UFF or LFF, but Frame Based as each image is solid and not interleaved.

[Ilene]

Interesting... I just put another mpg on my timeline whose audio properties ARE MPEG Audio Layer 2 files, so in fact Corel still does support this format and both the audio/video play perfectly. However, this particular mpg was created in Sony Vegas on a PC.... not sure if that matters or not?

in my original post, I noted that Windows Media Player identified the properties of the MPG file that was sent to me had the Audio Codec - MPEG AUdio Decoder. Is this the same or different than MPEG Audio Layer 2?? Perhaps this is the Codec that X3 and X2 no longer reads???

I have a very small clip that renders out to about 25mb... is there a way for me to post for you to test or for someone to test??? I'd love to see if it plays in earlier versions of VS before going ahead and reloading those older versions to my PC. I can send a file via yousendit.com which enables me to send files that large... the recipient receives an email w a link to download the file.... lmk.
thanks
Ilene

[Ken Berry]

Yes send me the clip at ken.berry[AT]gmail.com...

[skier-hughes]

Final Cut Pro is an Apple only programme, the codecs used to produce the files will be different and may not be available on your windows pc.
This is probably why the FCP file does not work and the sony vegas (made on a pc?) does work.
If he's going to supply any further files, ask him to export in a pc friendly format, which FCP can do, or you'll just need to use an audio editor to convert the audio from the video to a wav file.

[Ken Berry]

Graham -- I have long wondered about this. FCP captures and works with DV/AVI files, of course, but saves them with the .dv extension. You cannot just change the extension to .avi because VS won't recognise the files ... I have tried in the past with such files from Apple computers. The only way to save them that I could find at the time was as .mov files and then work from there. At the time, several years ago, I never had direct access to FCP and wondered if it could output a file as an mpg, but I never found out.

But I have always wondered why the same format (DV) could not be equal whether on a PC or an Apple...

[Ilene]

He uses an Apple program called Compressor to convert the file direct from FCP to mpeg. Looks like we choose all the standard properties. The only option for audio when you choose mpg video is mpeg. See my first post above w the output properties. wMP sees the audio as MPeG video decoder...VS doesn't see it. I believe there are other audio export options but they require that the audio be rendered separately giving u two files. He rendered the mpeg video, and then the audio as a Dolby tract and then I could add both to my timeline and rend out together...which seemed to have worked. I was just hoping for a one step solution. A single, self contained file (audio and video), that I could go direct to DVD with.

Ken.. Il send you that file in a bit... Thx

[Ken Berry]

Ilene -- I got your file, and am afraid it reacts as you describe at this end too. GSpot confirms the audio is mpeg-1 layer 2 (more commonly known as just mpeg audio) and moreover indicates the codec is available on the computer WMP plays it fine. But it will NOT play on X4, and sadly it will not play on X2, which I had thought would play mpeg audio. Both X4 and X2 indicate 'no audio' in the clip's Properties.

I will play around some more when I have time later today. But in the meantime, at least you have a clunky work-around with the Dolby audio as a separate stream.

BTW, does the Compressor program have any other outputs: I mean, can it do a cross-platform transfer from Apple's .dv to a PC's .avi (but keeping it DV/AVI)?

One other thing intrigues me. The bitrate for the clip you sent me has a maximum of 20000 kbps, yet the frame size is SD DVD's 720 x 480. If it is supposed to be a DVD-compatible mpeg-2, then the combined video/audio bitrate cannot be more than 10,000... So I am wondering if this too might be a factor in the problem...

[Ilene]

ken, thank you. this is so helpful. I'm glad I don't need to install another version of VS... ( unless of course you find that it works in 8, 9 or 11 as I have all of those here too... but somehow I doubt it)
I'm waiting for this editor to test the same file in Sony Vegas and see if it reads it. I found that I had a simple version of Cyberlink Power DVD installed on one of my PC's and it did play the audio.... but Premiere ELements, and VIdeo Studio will not.
I will investigate what you said about the bit rate... I too questioned how high that was.... and will look into the avi output option. Compressor I think is a program that comes packaged w Final Cut Pro for exporting files. I did a google search last night; "MOV to MPEG -- no audio" and remarkably came up with a lot of posts, so this must be somewhat of a known issue?
i'll keep you posted and would appreciate the same if you find out anything else.

thanks as always for the support,
Ilene