PLEASE HELP with DVD Authoring

[zatoichi101]

I have run into a roadblock -- I am having trouble authoring my DVD. I have watched the tutorials and read (and re-read) the User Guide, but the answers I am looking for just aren't there. I am hoping someone here can help.

I used my Canon HF S200 to shoot video of family reunions. It is about 2 1/2 hours long and I have about 32 chapters. I am ready to burn a DVD. but my chapters weren't appearing in the DVD Preview.

Further investigation showed that my project is 10.01 GBs and that my DVD only has 4.38 GB usable space.

It doesn't make sense to me. I rent Hollywood movies all the time that are nearly 3 hours long -- and those are certainly much more detailed than my little video.

I really don't want to split this project into 3 DVDs == that would be stupid.

How can I adjust settings so that my DVD fits -- and all of my Chapters appear in the DVD Preview prior to burning??

I would like wide screen setting.

Please help!

Thanks.

[Ken Berry]

I rent Hollywood movies all the time that are nearly 3 hours long

Unfortunately, that is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. First, those commercial movies are probably on a dual layer DVD, and this accepts up to 8.5 GB of video. Second, the commercial movies are subject to multi-pass analysis using equipment worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. This means that the video is analysed and re-analysed to ensure that it is recorded in absolutely the most efficient way possible with not a single kb of space being wasted. You simply can't expect the same from a consumer-level editing program, though you can at least subject variable bitrate (VBR) video to two passes and it usually improves the space usage on a disc.

Next, comes the format. Your camera films in AVCHD, which is high definition mpeg-4. This means highly compressed and high quality. Unfortunately, standard definition DVDs cannot use mpeg-4 or high definition video as such. Under the international DVD standard, it has to be standard definition mpeg-2, and this is less compressed (and lower quality) than your AVCHD original video. So the latter has to be converted at some stage to mpeg-2. You can do this after editing in the editing module (Share > Create Video File > DVD) or it can happen as part of the burning process (Share > Create Disc > DVD), though the latter workflow can sometimes be problematic, depending on how powerful your computer is and a number of other factors.

Now a project which is 2.5 hours long, as yours is, would probably quite correctly be over 10 GB in size if you used the default DVD settings. These include a high quality bitrate (which is nevertheless a good deal lower than your original AVCHD) of 8000 kbps. As a rule of thumb, one hour of video burned with that bitrate will fill a single layer DVD such as you are using i.e. 4.3 GB. To fit a 90 minute project on such a disc, you would need to lower the bitrate to 6000 kbps, and this would still give you good quality. A two hour project would require a bitrate of around 4000 kbps, though the quality would be no better than a VHS tape. And to fit your 2.5 hours on a single DVD would require significant further lowering of the bitrate, but that would reduce it to pretty poor quality.

To reduce the bitrate, you would need to go Share > Create Video File > Custom, with DVD/mpeg-2 as the desired format, and you lower the bitrate on the compression tab which appears.

AS for the chapters, I am assuming that you inserted the chapter marks in the editing process, but can you confirm this please. But if so, you still need to tick the box on the first page of the burning module to Create Chapters. Then when you go through that process, it should recognise the chapter cues inserted during editing -- though it will usually not carry over chapter names if your inserted those, and you would have to do those again. But with 32 chapters, your menu would need many pages to accommodate them.

[zatoichi101]

Thank you for getting back to me. I understand everything you've explained.

I did shoot in AVCHD, but for some reason, I was under the impression that the program would automatically covert the HD to SD when rendering to DVD. Is this not the case? Or is this exactly what you were talking about when you explained how to reduce the bitrate?

With regard to the chapter, yes, I did set chapter tabs and even used the Chapter Manager to rename them. And during the process to burn the DVD, I hit Add Chapters and they all appear in the timeline. However, when I click OK and NEXT - to select a DVD menu theme, the chapters do not appear in the Preview. Only the main one.

By the way, a week ago, before going through the process of setting chapter tabs and renaming them, I burned a test DVD -- just to see what the overall video would look like. And it burned successfully -- and looked great.

I didn't run into any trouble until I went to set Chapters.

That's why I am puzzled.

This video is kind of important for my family. I said it was a reunion, but that is not entirely true. My cousin passed away suddenly last year and it was a very hard blow to us all. I filmed the memorial service we had for her, as well as a couple of family events that accompanied the memorial.

I only mention this to explain why I do not want to chop the video into several DVDs. With that in mind, should I consider getting an external Blu-Ray burner? That might be an instant solution to the 10GB issue.

And with regard to the Chapters, could the 10GB issue be a cause of the program dropping them from the finished product?

I really want to thank you for taking time to help me with this!!

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

There is an issue when using chapter points the problem being slightly different depending on which version of Video Studio you use. Unfortunately I think X4 suffered the most.

I can only suggest you set the chapter points after doing Share Create Disc-Add video file
Make a note of the chapter points locations from the project this may help in setting them in the burner module.

From the gallery you will be best to select the “text or thumbnail” menu template as these allow you to set 8 links per page, the Smart Scene menu being limited to 4 (Edit tab-Customise-Layout)

This post goes into quite a lot of detail testing the chapter points operation.

and Bluray burner option is good provided your family all have bluray players.

[Ken Berry]

I was under the impression that the program would automatically covert the HD to SD when rendering to DVD. Is this not the case?

Well, yes it is ... but as is often the case, things are not quite that simple. A little background information may be helpful here. Your Vixia records very high quality AVCHD with a maximum bitrate at the highest quality settings at 24 Mbps. I don't know if you had it set to the highest quality MXP setting or the lesser but still excellent FXP at 17 Mbps. Moreover, this video has a frame size of 1920 x 1080 pixels. A standard definition DVD on the other hand will usually have a maximum bitrate of around 8000 kbps (8 Mbps) though sometimes just a little bit higher but certainly no more than 10 Mbps. And in NTSC land, it will have a frame size of 720 x 480 pixels (576 for PAL). So the automatic conversion you are talking about has to not only change the format from AVCHD mpeg-4 to DVD mpeg-2, it has to drop the bitrate down from 24 Mbps to one within the DVD standard (8 Mbps or less) and also change the frame size down from 1920 x 1080 to 720 x 480 pixels. All of these are highly complex tasks, though they might appear simple when you write them as I have above. And you are asking your computer to perform them as part of another process -- the burning one -- which is also a highly complex one. Things can go wrong, especially if your computer is not a particularly powerful one.

AVCHD is possibly the most demanding consumer-level format currently on the market, and you need at the very least a decent Core 2 Duo processor even to be able to play it smoothly. Preferably you will have an even more powerful computer. Now you haven't seen fit to set out your computer specifications in your Profile when you registered on this Board. This is one of the reasons we ask for that information! And we really need that information now. So if you could either supply it here or go back to the User Control Panel link in the top left of screen http://forum.corel.com/EN/ucp.php and fill it in there, it would be appreciated.

In any case, even if you use this automatic conversion as part of the burning process and it works without problems, it will use the *default* DVD settings for the conversion, and this includes a bitrate set at 8 Mbps. And as I said above, with this bitrate, you will only be able to burn 1 hour of video to a 4.2 GB DVD. And to fit your 2.5 hour project, you would need to reduce the bitrate down to unacceptably poor quality levels of 3 Mbps or less...

If quantity is more important than quality, then this is possible with the automatic conversion option. But in the burning module you have to click on the middle of the three icons in the bottom left of the screen -- the one with a cogwheel on it. On the new screen which appears, then up in the top there is a window which gives you the Properties which will be used in the conversion. You will see that by default the bitrate is 8000 kbps. To lower it you would then have to click on the button below that screen labelled 'Change MPEG Settings' and then Customize. On the new screen which appear, choose the Compression tab and lower the bitrate.

But a lot of this begs the question of whether you really need a 2.5 hour project -- though I can understand the reason why you really want it and why you don't want to split it. But no matter how much you loved your cousin, do you honestly -- deep down -- believe everyone is going to sit down and watch something for a solid 2 and a half hours? Even with a gripping movie, 150 minutes is a very long time. So I guess what I am saying is that in situations like this, less is often more... And if you really want good quality and the same length, you really have little alternative but to either lower the bitrate to a still good 6000 to 6500 kbps and burn it on a dual layer DVD (8.5 GB) or else split it in two and burn it to single layer discs with a similar or slightly higher bitrate.

Your idea of a Blu-Ray disc is good in theory, but as Trevor has already indicated, that would assume all your friends and family who would be getting the disc would have to have Blu-Ray players to play it. And in addition, you would still probably need to play around with bitrates -- though Blu-Ray level bitrates! -- to fit everything on one disc. A single layer Blu-Ray disc can hold 25 GB. If you burned the disc with AVCHD in that format, then VS only uses a maximum bitrate of 18 Mbps (not the 24 Mbps of your original), but even at that bitrate, your project would be too long to fit into 25 GB as AVCHD. So you would again need to lower the burning bitrate fairly considerably to make it fit. While it would still be high definition, the end quality would still be considerably poorer than the original.

Sorry to sound so negative throughout, but I am afraid these are some of the realities of video editing and the hard creative choices we often have to make...

[zatoichi101]

Hi Ken,

Thank you for your answer! And for your time! (When I get home this evening, I will be sure to add all of my computer information.)

With regard to the 2.5 hour question, I am making this more as a memory than as a "movie." If I were making a more entertaining "movie" about the reunion, I could cut an hour out easily. But in this case, this is more of a video scrapbook of stories, performances, games ... The clips are left in because someday, someday in the distant future, we might like looking back on that week. (A lot of the family were together for the first time in many, many years. So, I was very reluctant to cut scenes for the sake of "creativity." In this case, preservation of footage was more important than creative license, I guess.)

And so, I think the best solution might actually be to burn to a Blu-Ray and have those few members of the family who don't have a Blu-Ray player yet, upgrade! Ha! (At this point, I would be inclined to BUY them a new BD player than re-edit this entire video. LOL!!!)

And that is why I am so concerned about Chapters. If I can't set chapters, then a 2.5 hour movie is way too long. With Chapters, they could watch the different segments and then restart with a new segment whenever they want.

I will try your suggestions, for sure. And I will let you know how things go! (Fortunately, I actually wrote down the time points for each chapter point -- so adding them later won't be such a huge task.)

Thank you again!!!

Kurt

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

Try burning a standard definition disc just to see if the quality is suitable. If not then an upgrade to Bluray is on the cards

From X4 open your project
Set from Settings Project Properties (alt+enter)
Format Mpeg files
Edit
Tick Two-Pass encode
Compression tab—Video Data rate to Variable 3400kbps
Audio to Digital Dolby
All other settings should be correct
Press ok to return to edit timelines.

Share Create Disc-DVD
Add Chapters
Next
From the gallery choose a Thumbnail or Text type menu.
Edit tab -- Customise to set the layout to 8 per page.
From ”advanced” deselect Add Title Menu---this will hide the first menu page containing the single link, your disc will start playing showing the first chapter menu .
Now continue to edit the menu pages

Important
View the Required Space showing on the Green bar the Gb should be below (4.3 gb)
The bar should be green with no yellow and certainly no red. If showing over these limits.
View the Options Cogwheel-Change Mpeg settings-Customise reduce bit rate to 3300kbps.
Make sure Two Pass is ticked.
Next
Choose to create a DVD Folder , this option will save you wasting a disc.
Otherwise burn a disc
When complete and the conversion may take a little time.

Play the resultant TS folder or disc on your pc,