X4 - Flip horizontal & vertical bug

[nhlisa]

Hi. I find that X4 has changed Image > Mirror to Image > Flip Horizontal.
And Image > Flip to Flip Veritical.

It did confuse me at first..but that's not the problem.

The problem is that these commands don't work the same as they did in X3.

For instance, I open an image. I want to add some corners to it. I would copy & paste the corner as a new layer. Duplicate the corner layer and then Mirror. It would go over to the opposite side of the image right where it should be. Then I can either flip, if I just want two corners on opposing corners or I can duplicate then flip.. etc.

When I try to do this in X4, it doesn't work the same. I put the corner in the upper left hand corner and duplicate the layer. I then click to Flip Horizontal and it does mirror, BUT it butts itself right up against the side of the original corner. I then have to actually move it into place. Flip Vertical does the same, except it is at the bottom of the original corner and I have to move it.

I used corners as an example but it does the same thing no matter what image I use and want to mirror or flip.

For corers it's not a huge problem because I always use Simple Top Left Mirror to put the corners in all 4 corners. It is a problem if I just want to do two opposing corners or anything else that i might need to mirror or flip because the position won't be perfect.

Anyone else have this problem?

I'd report it, but I don't know what good it would do. I reported that I had a plugin bug with Filters Unlimited just like I did in X3 after doing one of those updates and I haven't gotten any response yet. I understand they get a lot of emails, but I should have gotten a response by now...even if all they told me was that they were looking into it....

Lisa

[LindaSue]

I use Flip and Mirror all the time the same way that you do to add corners on new layers. I would hate to have to manually position the corners and hope that they're lined up perfectly. That's reason enough for me to not buy PSPX4.

For corners it's not a huge problem because I always use Simple Top Left Mirror to put the corners in all 4 corners. It is a problem if I just want to do two opposing corners or anything else that i might need to mirror or flip because the position won't be perfect.

What is "Simple Top Left Mirror"? Where do I find that option? I don't recall ever seeing that. Is it available in PSP8 or X2?

[jaxman]

Same problem here. Beginning to not like X4 either.

[nhlisa]

I use Flip and Mirror all the time the same way that you do to add corners on new layers. I would hate to have to manually position the corners and hope that they're lined up perfectly. That's reason enough for me to not buy PSPX4.

What is "Simple Top Left Mirror"? Where do I find that option? I don't recall ever seeing that. Is it available in PSP8 or X2?

Sorry....Should have mentioned that I was referring to the Simple Filters - Top Left Mirror is one of the filters. Simple filters are free, very useful filters and can be found here: http://www.btinternet.com/~cateran/simple/

It works great for doing corners. You position your first corner in the upper left hand corner and run the filter and it automatically puts the corners in the other three without having to do the whole duplicate mirror, duplicate flip, duplicate mirror thing.

Lisa

[nhlisa]

Same problem here. Beginning to not like X4 either.

I've just found a few bugs in X4 so far....None of them will make me get rid of the program though. I have X2 & X3 I can use whne something doesn't quite work right in X4. I do however really hope they fix these bugs.

Lisa

[LindaSue]

Thanks for the link to the Simple filters, Lisa. There's a good chance I've already got that one and didn't realize what it could do.

[LindaSue]

Yes, I did have the Simple Filters that I'd downloaded MANY years ago, probably for PSP5. I just had to figure out which one it was (tlm) and put it in my Plugins folder. I tried it and it works like a charm. Thanks again, Lisa.

[nhlisa]

Yes, I did have the Simple Filters that I'd downloaded MANY years ago, probably for PSP5. I just had to figure out which one it was (tlm) and put it in my Plugins folder. I tried it and it works like a charm. Thanks again, Lisa.

You're welcome!

I use Simple Filters all the time. You can make some neat seamless tiles by combining the various effects in the filter.

Lisa

[LeviFiction]

It should be noted that this is not a bug. They actually changed the functionality of these commands to base it on the active area of the layer and not the entire image.

Now you some might get worried that scripts recorded for older versions suddenly won't work properly. Luckily we had some pretty big scripters in the beta team and they fought to get the old functionality back.

Unfortunately the old functionality only exists in the scripting side of PSP. So if you want to get the old functionality back you have to use scripts, but by using the "Bind Scripts" option of PSP we can get those scripts placed into the menu and re-assign the appropriate keyboard keys. I think both options are useful so I have both Flip & Mirror added to Flip Vertical & Horizontal because I like them both.

EDITED: Here are some instructions for getting the old functionality back.

There are two quick methods for making the necessary scripts to get the old Mirror and Flip functionalities back. Choose one, they are both very easy.

1)

Go into an older version of PSP and record a single Mirror function and save it. Then do the same thing for a Flip function.

Move those to the "Scripts-Restricted" folder of your PSPX4 files.



2)

The second option you can use, do the same recording of Flip Horizontal and Flip Vertical in PSPX4. Then select them in the script toolbar and hit the "Edit Script" button on the script toolbar. It will either bring up Notepad or the Script editor. IF the Script Editor pops up you'll see a button that says "Text Editor" click on that to bring up Notepad or whatever you have setup to edit scripts.

Near the bottom of the script you'll see the method "App.Do(Environment, Mirror.." or "App.Do(Environment, Flip...")you'll see a parameter that says "TransformLocally" and it will be set to "True". Change "True" to "False" (use the capital "F") and save the script. Your script will now act like the old method.


From there the steps for adding them to the menu are the same

Go into your customize dialog( on the menu bar View->Customize) in PSPX4 and select "Bind Scripts" and bind each script to an icon.

Drag them from the list into the Image menu and you will now have the commands back. Switching their keyboard shortcuts is a little more involved (I removed the one from Magnifier and gave it to Flip Horizontal and gave the ones from Flip Horizontal and Vertical back to Mirror and Flip) so I won't get into that.

If it helps I have a small video where I show doing the same thing with a very simple "Convert To Curve" command for editing vectors. Different purpose, same method.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxtEpQXe-0I

It works the same way in X4 as it does X3.

[flagpole]

I hadn't noticed this. but the feature is ridiculous.

I don't care whether the old functionality has script support. the new functionality simply makes the program harder to use. the only times i ever use flip or mirror i want it to work the old way.

A simple and obvious demonstration of the fact that the change is absurd is that the only way to easily accurately and automatically do what the OP requires on X4 is to restore the old function from X3 via scripting where as on X3 the way to achieve the effect of the new functionality as shown in X4 is trivial.

i would be interested to know what the logic was behind this change what it was felt the benefit would be. the TransformLocally subfunction may be clever but it makes the product worse.

[LeviFiction]

I use both, and while I do not like how they gave us both it is something I can live with.

[nhlisa]

It should be noted that this is not a bug. They actually changed the functionality of these commands to base it on the active area of the layer and not the entire image.

Thanks for posing this information. I don't understand what they were thinking, but I'm glad to know that it's not a bug and that there is a way around it.

I went to PSP and recorded a simple mirror and simple flip. Saved them in the X4 folder and opened X4...bound them and dragged them to my toolbar right next to the flip horizontal and flip veritcal icons. Tried it and it works.

Thanks again,
Lisa

[Dizzie]

The way this feature has changed is terrible..I agree with the others; I used mirror and flip because of the way it worked...thanks for the Tip Lisa!
OMGAWD...Filters Unlimited doesn't work at all in X4....I can't imagine why...it works great in PS CS5.......close to a deal breaker.

[nhlisa]

The way this feature has changed is terrible..I agree with the others; I used mirror and flip because of the way it worked...thanks for the Tip Lisa!
OMGAWD...Filters Unlimited doesn't work at all in X4....I can't imagine why...it works great in PS CS5.......close to a deal breaker.

The same bug with filters happened in X3 after doing an update. I had to uninstall and re-install, skipping the updates to get all my filters working again.

Filters Unlimited does work in X4...BUT...only on a background layer...won't work on a raster layer. So yes it's annoying. If I have to use FU on a raster layer, it means saving my work in progress, and going over to X3 to use the filter...saving it and going back to X4. I'll manage, but I hope they get it fixed. So far the only other filter that doesn't work at all is Adjust Variations, but that's not a real issue for me as I almost never used it.

Lisa

[Cassel]

The mirror and flip issue was found during testing, and addressed, especially with the functionalities in scripts, which ended up totally useless without it. I know this is a different way to use the mirror and flip but i can see it being useful in different tasks than what we were used to. Of course, we were used to the way it WAS working, and found tasks that worked fine with it. However i remember facing situations when i wish the flip/mirror was not working that way.

Here is an example (and i am a scrapbooker so that will be the object): you have a long 4000 pixels ribbon, that is 150 pixels high. You are working on one end, with a particular design that is intricate. You need to zoom in to work on it "comfortably". Now you want to have that design duplicated, mirrored and placed adjacent to what you just worked on. Using the "old" mirror effect, that duplicate would end up on the other end of the image, requiring to zoom out, move back where you worked and zoom in again to adjust it. It is a matter of habit.

I do agree, however, that offering both options (like in the rotate command) would have been best for all. Maybe next time.