MPEG VS AVI: what have I done!! (and how do I undo it?)

[lisaviolet]

Okay, for some reason the videos I just spent the past two weeks working on, have different properties. I've got ten video files, half with the properties being AVI, the other half MPEG. I have no idea why this happened, I didn't change the settings between "chapters", but what's done is done.

NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
Upper Field First
(DVD-NTSC), 16:9
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
LPCM Audio, 48000 Hz, Stereo

NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 480, 16:9, 29.97 fps
Frame-based
DV Video Encoder -- type 1
DV Audio -- NTSC, 32.000 kHz, 16 Bit, Stereo

I'm done working on them. What would be the best way to get them all in one long video? Create individual video files for each one in the Share option? Then piece them together (I've done it so that they're all "chapters" - hundreds and hundreds of photos, more manageable when they're split up into groups)? I already tried doing a save changing the properties from MPEG to AVI and it spit it back at me. Copying from one project and pasting into a new project isn't working, either. *laughing*

Thanks.

[Ken Berry]

It depends what you are wanting to do with them, though with those properties, I assume you are aiming to make a standard def DVD. But could you confirm that please. Could you also let us know exactly where the various bits of video came from. Those properties suggest two different camcorders were used, one of which being mini-DV tape-based.

I too am somewhat mystified how you could have two different sets of properties if you didn't start out with two sets of quite different video properties. What is more, I can only ask you also to absolutely confirm that the second set -- the AVIs -- do indeed have Frame Based as part of their properties. I ask since DV, whether it is Type 1 or Type 2, is *always* Lower Field First. I am not even sure I could set up a template using the DV/AVI codec that would make it Frame Based.

But if indeed it is Frame Based, then you might be in luck. You would need to convert the DV/AVI to DVD-compatible mpeg-2 with the same properties as your first set of videos. That would include (MUST include) using Upper Field First. And if your DV clips are indeed Frame Based, that conversion should be relatively simple to Upper Field First. It would be a bit of a mess if it were Lower Field First. Making LFF video UFF would introduce all sorts of unwanted -- and unsightly -- artifacts. But a basic rule of video editing is that a single video project should be either LFF or UFF and not mixed together (though with Frame Based capable of being converted to either).

If the DV clips are in fact LFF, and don't actually have to be blended in with the mpeg-2 clips, however, you can certainly produce a DVD with everything on it -- though you would need to have quite separate new clips on the DVD, one set with the UFF mpeg-2, and other with the converted LFF mpeg-2.

[lisaviolet]

There are two sources of video. A panasonic Lumix (mov) and Canon Elura (avi).

Just looking at the sections now, one of the things I had done was taken the mov files which were 4:3 ratio and overlay them onto a 16:9 background, save as a VSP file. Maybe that's where the problem lies.

NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
Upper Field First
(DVD-NTSC), 16:9
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
LPCM Audio, 48000 Hz, Stereo

Hmmm.....I'm going to see if I can redo them and save as AVI in the settings.

[lisaviolet]

Just to make sure I'm looking at the right properties.

Top menu bar...Settings > Project Properties

Is this the right place? If so, all the MPEG video shows the exact same settings.

NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
Upper Field First
(DVD-NTSC), 16:9
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
LPCM Audio, 48000 Hz, Stereo

[lisaviolet]

Meh, I have to keep logging in here, lose my flow of thought (that's my story and I'm sticking to it).

What I'm making is a DVD with video and photos shot by different people. The settings are all as I described (providing I looked in the right place, not always a given..).

I guess it would make a difference in the quality if I did both using the same "Share > Create Video File > DVD > DVD Video (16:9)" settings without converting the AVI files first? That it would be better if I used the "Share > Create Video File > DVD > MPEG2 (720x480)" on the AVI files first?

[Ken Berry]

The Properties you posted in your second last post were the Project Properties -- what the new video will have if you use Share > Create Video File > Same As Project Properties. You get the actual video file properties by right clicking on the file, either in the timeline or the library, and selecting Properties.

If you are producing a DVD, ultimately the video has to be converted to DVD-compatible mpeg-2. Now as I understand it, you don't actually have any mpeg-2 video as yet -- just the .mov (though whatever format is under that is anybody's guess) and DV/AVI. If you have only so far saved the .mov bits as .VSP, it has not yet been converted. So please right click on one of those mov files and give us ALL its properties. I suspect, since it came from an Elura, it is likely to be either full AVCHD high def mpeg-4 1920 x 1080, or else AVCHD 'Lite' and 1280 x 720p. But we need to know. Either way it will still be Upper Field First. And your Elura should have given you Lower Field First DV/AVI, not Frame Based. So my above comments still hold about not mixing the two field orders in one video project.

Now the photos are another matter. Have you already converted them to a slideshow movie? If so, with what properties? Slideshows can be Frame Based, but they can also happily be easily converted to UFF or LFF to suit the other video in the project.

[lisaviolet]

Okay, the MOV files were saved over a PSPIMAGE as a VSP project. Properties (clicking on the file in the video timeline) for those are

NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
Upper Field First
(DVD-NTSC), 16:9
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
LPCM Audio, 48000 Hz, Stereo

The AVI files (from the Elura)

All photos are in 16:9 ratio. Either 1920X1080, 924x520 or 853x480. All are PSPIMAGE files (because I put the original JPG images over a PSPIMAGE background, making them all 16:9).

If I create video files for all ten as DVD 16:9, without any conversion, will there be a noticeable difference in quality between the first two and the last eight?

I did create (convert) the shorter of the two using both the MPEG setting and the DVD 16:9 setting (this project has photos, VSP and AVI in it). Both ended up as MPEG files, but the DVD 16:9 wasn't squished (a technical term) with black bars over the top and bottom like the MPEG setting was.

I'm most likely way overthinking this and could well be over halfway finished if I just started working on it. But the file format message pushed me off of the track and had me a little nervous.

(One of my friends told me it didn't matter, just put the photos in any order when I called her to ask about the sequence of events. I just sat here in silence, shaking my head. "Do you remember who you're talking to? You know I can't do that! It would make me crazy!")

[lisaviolet]

Well, converting each project to DVD 16:9 works. Tried it with one of each and it's seamless.

Yay.

I hate making things more difficult than they have to be, but I just keep doing it.

[Ken Berry]

Unfortunately, we are still no nearer to knowing what format your .mov files really are. As I said before, the properties you give are just the project properties, and are what that project will become if your actually convert it to a new video using Share > Create Video File > Same As Project Properties. What you have done is save them as a VSP. Those letters stand for Video Studio Project. And a VSP file is not a video file. It is a small text file telling the program what video is included in the project, where it is located on the computer, and what editing has been done to it.

If you still have one of your original .mov files, can you insert it in a clean timeline or in the library window of VS and then right click it. Then post another image of what is shown under its Properties. Then we will have a better idea whereof we speak!

If I create video files for all ten as DVD 16:9, without any conversion, will there be a noticeable difference in quality between the first two and the last eight?

Unfortunately, that's a little like asking how long a piece of string is! What I have been trying to say above is that the answer depends on what you have included in each project. One project you say has photos, at least one VSP file and AVI in it. Now the photos, as I have said, are no problem. They can take on the guise of being either Upper or Lower Field First without problem. But as I thought, your image shows clearly that the DV is just that, and believe me, it is Lower Field First even if that is not shown in the properties. So the photos and the DV can definitely go together. But it then depends on what is in the VSP file(s). If these include -- as I suspect they may -- existing video which is Upper Field First mpeg-2, then you will have trouble since you would be mixing LFF (DV) with UFF (mpeg-2). And that contravenes the First Law of video editing...

But we won't know for sure until you tell us what type of video the .mov extension is hiding...

[lisaviolet]

*sigh*

Okay, here ya go. I realized that there are some of the mov/vsp files in the MPEG projects. So, it must have been how I had the settings when I started, I must have changed them after the first two. I can't imagine any other reason. A learning experience.