VideoStudio 10 audio problem

[Weeination]

I had stopped using VS10 for a few years and have decided to go back to it recently. There have been two problems which I have experienced and were both with the audio. To date all I have been doing with VS10 (upgrade version from VS9) is importing DVDs which were previously recorded off of television with and doing some basic editing and authoring. The audio format is Dolby with 48000 Hz and a bit rate of 256 kbps. I just edit out commercials and with that saved project create a video file as per the recommended procedure posted by JC Hunter a few years back. To be clear, I say “Yes” when asked "Do you want to change the project settings to match the video’s properties so video studio can perform smart render".

My first problem appears to have been solved by searching through this forum. I was having out of sync issues after creating a video file and I haven’t noticed any OOS after I stopped using the smart render feature in the process of creating a video file.

My other problem I noticed after already burning a couple of DVDs is that the audio has a popping or crackling sound after creating a video file. I recall years ago being told that the excessive cracks and pops in the audio during the project editing phase are normal with VS10. After making a video file from the finalized project, the cracks and pops in the audio go away for the most part. However they still can sometimes can be heard. Is there anything that can be done to make the audio on the rendered video file free of all pops and crackles, just as it is on the original DVD recording?


The properties of the imported DVD
Mpeg-2 Upper Field First
Variable bit rate (Max. 9558)
704 X 480
29.97
Dolby Digital Audio
Bit rate 256


NTSC
Operating System: XP Home Edition Service Pack 2
32 bit
Board: ASUSTeK Computer INC. Goldfish2 1.xx
Processor: 2.67 gigahertz Intel Pentium 4
Ram: 1016 Megabytes Usable Installed Memory
SAMSUNG SP1614C [Hard drive] (160.04 GB)
Intel(R) 82915G/GV/910GL Express Chipset Family [Display adapter]
Realtek High Definition Audio

[Ken Berry]

Welcome to the forums!

The video bitrate you are using is rather high for a home made DVD -- though admittedly still within the boundaries of the DVD standard. However, I would still suggest you think about reducing it to around 8000 kbps.

And for the audio, I would suggest you experiment with dropping the audio bitrate down to 192 kbps, particularly if you leave the video bitrate at its current high level.

[Weeination]

Thanks for the response. Unfortunately however that did not solve the problem. I first tried only adjusting the audio bit rate to 192 kbps and for the next attempt I adjusted both the audio bit rate to 192 and the video bit rate to 8000 kbps. Before I changed the video bit rate on the project, it took around 100 minutes to make a video file for a 67 minute project. With the bit rate lowered, it then took around 4.5 hours to render a video file from that same project.

In case it matters, I didn’t start with a new project to change the settings before doing any editing. I just opened the previously edited project and changed the settings prior to the creation of the video file.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

I would re-install the Realtek High Definition Audio, Just in case its not performing correctly.

[Weeination]

I took your suggestion Trevor but that did not work either. I then used smart render (which took only a few minutes to render) and the video file did not have the pops and crackles. It is kind of hard to tell however but there might be a very slight out of sync issue in the final minutes of this smart rendered file. If not then there is the certainly the concern that it will indeed happen again on another project, just as when it was clearly there on my first attempt as I noted in my initial post. That is of course the only reason why I stopped using the smart render feature in the first place. By the way, when it was clearly apparent on that first attempt, the OOS only seemed to appear in the latter part of the file. If I recall correctly, it had become noticeable around the 45 to 50 minute mark of the 67 minute file.

Is there any way to prevent having OOS issues when using smart render? If I recall correctly from reading other threads on the forum, isn't it generally okay to edit Mpeg files as long as you're only doing basic editing? I would hope so because this is the only reason why I purchased VideoStudio in the first place.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

Editing mpeg2 files
Some video types, DV-Avi in particular are said to be lossless, in that when they are rendered there is no reduction in quality from the original.
Mpeg2 files suffer some loss in quality, however you would need a very good eye to recognise any difference in the first instance. Further rendering of the second Mpeg would again reduce quality, you would have to go through 3 or 4 generations to see any depreciation.
I would say you should be fine editing Mpeg2 video.
-------------------------------------
The sound blips is a different matter, to be honest I do not know why this is happening. I did have some issues a few years ago but was related to my audio drivers hence my suggestion to re-install Realtek.
-------------------------------------
Your original Mpeg is using a high bitrate of 9558kbps, Video Studios limit is 8264kbps so some reduction has to take place. We generally use 8000kbps as the standard setting.

As a work-round you could try rendering your originals to DV-Avi, edit these in the project then rendered the completed project to DVD Mpeg2 using the standard X4 template.

------------------------------------
I have just used VS 9 and 10 to create a Mpeg to your settings and used these in X4 to see if I can simulate the problem. Not knowing what other edits you have applied makes it difficult to copy your procedure. I have not found any audio problems.
----------------------------------
I am aware of some problems when using “titles” that seem to cause some blips within the video.
This being overcome by disabling Smart Render.

----------------------------------

If you could make a sample of your original video file available I am willing to try rendering on my pc.
If the problem is inherent within the video file then I will experience similar results.
-----------------------------

Video Studio 9 and 10 I have to say that I found these versions better than and more stable than most of the previous versions.

[lata]

Hi Ken

Weeination Aka Donald contacted me via PM asking if Trevor Andrew and Lata are one of the same, well yes.

Donald wishes to continue with the posts with a view to a fix, seems a while ago now, I have asked Donald to reply here

[Weeination]

Hello again Trevor & Ken.

As I said to Trevor in the PM I recently sent it has been so long that I don't even remember how I solved the issues I was having.

The current problem I am having is similar. The video and the audio are not in sync (an imported television recording) and therefore I clipped the audio by .03 and moved it to the beginning with the video. Then when I create a video file there are pops in the audio. This happens whether or not I use smart render and also happened when I adjusted the audio bit rate to 192 kbps (from 256) and the video adjusted to 8000 kbps (from 9558). It even happened when making a DVD just from the edited project, in other words not making a video file.

I did another test by making a video file using smart render with the file unedited. The resultant video file did not have any of the popping or cracking sound that is on the video files which have the OOS issue corrected.

It has been a couple of days now since my PM to Trevor. The primary reason for that is because after I sent it, I did a scan of my computer with AVG and it had identified two threats that it could not remove. They were two cabinet files that I ended up deleting. I then started experience some problems with my computer upon a reboot and therefore did a system repair which brought Windows back to the original factory settings. While all of my data was still intact including the files I have with VS, I had to re-install all of the programs I was previously using.

With VS 10 getting a re-install I made another attempt at a video file, once again clipping the audio by .03 and lining it up with the beginning of the video to make it more in sync. For this latest attempt, I again changed the project settings with the audio bit rate to 192 kbps (from 256) and the video adjusted to 8000 kbps (from 9558). Despite the system repair and re-installation however the ended up with the same result, audio that has popping and cracking sounds.

As I said to Trevor in my PM, my computer specifications are the same as before.

I never uploaded files before but Trevor asked that I provide a sample to a sharing site. I used 4Shared among one of the options he suggested. In order to get a true test of what I am doing, I uploaded an entire episode of the program in question where I am aligning the audio with the video from the beginning to the end. For this project I am not removing the commercials. If the file is too large or if you are having trouble accessing it then please let me know.

http://www.4shared.com/video/nI_PYZbe/u ... 29450.html

Thanks,

Donald

[lata]

Hi Donald

Thanks for the sample, yep the file size is quite large but managed to download.

Added to Video Studio X5, I no longer use VS10
I removed/deleted the commercials
Share Create Video File same as Project Properties, these were previously matched to use the video files properties.

The resultant file seems ok to me.
I have uploaded to 4Shared
http://www.4shared.com/video/DscZagIN/n ... _lata.html

Let me know what you think?

[Weeination]

Thanks for that Trevor. It appears to sound fine. I take it that your editing included clipping the audio by .03 and lining it up with the beginning of the video? With the reduction in resolution and video quality from that website it makes it a little harder to tell if that adjustment was made. I did make a video file as a test from that recording without the audio glitches, but that was when I didn't adjust the audio and it remained slightly OOS.

I really need to be able to adjust where the audio is positioned. I have a few more recordings from this series that are also OOS and a couple of them are off by at least a second. If you did separate the audio and adjust where it is positioned then I wonder what is causing the issue I am having.

[lata]

Hi Donald

I made no adjustments what so ever to the clip.
I simply deleted the commercials and then created the new video file.
The original audio / video seemed in sync to me.

When you say you lined up the audio by 0.03 what do you mean.?
Did you split audio then re-align the two clips?

As I say I did not edit the audio.

[Weeination]

Yes I split the audio away from the video. Then I cut the beginning 0.03 of the audio and then moved the remainder of it to the left (the beginning) to have it start at the same time as the video.

[Ken Berry]

FWIW, I have also now downloaded your video, and I -- like Trevor -- can detect no OOS between video and audio. I chose several random spots throughout the video, and each time the audio was fully in sync with lip movement. No lag at all. Note that I at first made no cuts.

Like Trevor, I then cut out the ads, and rendered 'Same As Project Settings" which were identical of course to the original. Made no adjustment to audio. And again, it came out perfectly.

I also set it to Custom (to use NTSC), using 8000 kbps video and 192 kbps audio. Again no OOS and otherwise quite good quality.

So I can only conclude that your own OOS is either linked to VS 10 SE (which was a cut down version usually distributed free with hardware, usually a capture device) or else some physical/software problem more generally on your computer. Note also that I used VS X6 as I have not had a version of VS 10 on any of my computers for many years.

Are you only using VS 10 SE because it is linked to your capture device? Since the captured video clearly works perfectly in both VS X5 and X6, you may want to consider upgrading. You could still use VS 10 to do the actual capture, but then simply open the captured video in a later version of VS to do the editing.

[Weeination]

The only reason why I say there is an OOS issue is because that same program reran again the following night on the same channel which I also recorded and it looks to be more in sync than the version I uploaded. However even that rerun had a signal issue occur around halfway through the show and then the very slight OOS issue appeared on it as well. I will admit that the OOS is only very slight and hard to detect.

However for the sake of argument let's say that what I uploaded is actually in sync. That does not help me with the two other episodes I have recorded from this series that are clearly OOS by at least a second. I did consider uploading one of them and perhaps I should have but the reason why I uploaded the episode that I did is because I found the popping sound to be a little more frequent after adjusting the audio. However for each one of these episodes that I have moved the audio to align it better with the video and then create a video file I always getting the popping and cracking sound.

If you want I can upload one of the two episodes I have that are very out of sync and then to make a proper final product the audio will have to be adjusted with the video. For these projects I am not even editing out the commercials as it is actually preferred that they are included simply because these are first run broadcasts from the originating station.

I believe if I were to cut out the ads and not adjust the alignment of the audio relative to the video as both of you have done I too would also get audio that would not have the issues I am describing. However that is not what I am trying to do in this particular case for episodes from this particular series. I know I have made video files and resultant DVDs in the past since my initial post from a couple of years ago by editing out commercials and getting a final result that does not have audio issues. However that did not involve what I am doing now, changing the alignment of the audio to better match it up with the video due what I at least perceive to be OOS and aside from that leaving the original commercials intact.

I still use VS10 because for what I do up until now it did all that I need it to do perfectly fine. The episodes are recorded onto a disc (either a DVD-R or DVD-RW) off of a DVR and then simply imported into VS for further editing.

Please let me know if you would like me to upload one of the other episodes that are clearly OOS and which clearly need to have the audio adjusted to match the video.

[lata]

Hi Donald

Well yes feel free to upload another sample. Tell us what you want us to do with it, then we will all edit in a similar manner. If I do not identify an audio OSS I would not have a reason to Split Audio.

But I have to say I had no problems with your first sample, either with OOS or popping sounds. The audio to me sounds good as does the video.
Ken has run the same tests and concludes the same. So something is clearly wrong/different with our systems.

Either its VS 10 SE, I suggest you try the trial version of X6, at least that would eliminate VS 10.
If you have similar problems then it may be your PC, Audio or Graphics drivers.

As for the final recordings, clearly you are wasting a disc in creating the coasters, try creating a Disc Image instead of the disc, you can play the Iso using VCL Media Player to check quality before burning the disc. If OK use the iso to burn to disc. (DVD VCD Disc Image Recorder)