Burning H.264 .m2ts to AVCHD DVD

[garywood84]

I have a h.264 video file in .m2ts format, captured using a TV card, and I want to burn this to an AVCHD DVD. I've been trying to do this with VSX4. I don't want the video to be re-encoded because it's already in a suitable format. If I open X4, and then Create Disc and insert the video, the video plays fine and everything looks OK. However, when I click Burn on the final screen, I get a message saying that the video will take some time to render (oddly, since I've chosen the option not to convert compatible files, and VS seems to be taking notice of this choice because if I de-select it, the video size on the disc indicator increases). If I click OK, the rendering process seems to start but it jumps to 3% and then nothing happens. It just sits there.

I thought maybe VS had a problem with the video, so I tried inserting it onto the timeline, and I can edit and output it from there without any problems. But, I can't burn it to AVCHD DVD without re-encoding it, which I don't want to do because it will reduce the quality of what is already a compatible file.

Can anyone help me, please?

Thanks,
Gary

[Ken Berry]

Can you right click on the file inside VS, please, and copy ALL its properties here. I suspect the video could be one using at least part of the new AVCHD international standard specifications. Since earlier this year, the standard includes AVCHD shot by new camcorders which use full progressive mode at 50 (PAL)/60 (NTSC) full frames per second. And the permissible bitrate for such videos (plus 3D AVCHD) is now 28 Mbps. Last year, the standard for other types of AVCHD raised the bitrate maximum from 18 to 24 Mbps. Unfortunately, VS can only handle 25/29.97 fps video and a maximum bitrate of only 20 Mbps. So if your original video has properties beyond that, then that is likely to be the reason why it attempts to render then chokes...

[garywood84]

Thanks, Ken. Here are the properties:

File
File format: MPEG-2 (Transport stream)
File size: 1,738,897 KB
Duration 1750.000 seconds

Video
Video type: H.264 Video
Total frames: 43,750 frame(s)
Attributes: 24 bits, 1440 x 1080, 16:9
Frame rate: 25.000 frames/sec
Data rate: Variable bit rate

Audio
Audio type: Dolby Digital Audio
Total samples: 84,000,000 samples
Attributes: 48000 Hz, 5.1 Channels
Layer: None
Bit rate: 384 kbps

... if your original video has properties beyond that, then that is likely to be the reason why it attempts to render then chokes...

Wouldn't that mean it wouldn't render it at all? It's true that it doesn't if I'm trying to render it to an AVCHD DVD, but if I just load the video up into VS and then save it as an AVCHD file, it works fine. So, the problem seems to be something to do with burning.

[Ken Berry]

It's a little curious -- at least to me -- that your TV card is giving you video in Blu-Ray format direct. Moreover, although it uses the H.264 codec -- which is normally associated with mpeg-4/AVCHD -- in this case the .m2ts extension is a wrapper for mpeg-2 transport stream video. So that is certainly the explanation for the choking in the burning process -- the video has to be rendered because it is not AVCHD-compliant for an AVCHD hybrid disc.

...but if I just load the video up into VS and then save it as an AVCHD file, it works fine.

Yes, because you are converting a Blu-Ray mpeg-2 into an AVCHD files, and that is what an AVCHD disc must have...

[garywood84]

It's a little curious -- at least to me -- that your TV card is giving you video in Blu-Ray format direct.

Sorry, I should have been clearer about this. The files captured by my TV card at actually in .ts format. But, they contain multiple audio streams, and this upsets VSX4 - it won't open or play them. So, I'm using another program called VideoRedo (www.videoredo.net) to strip out the second audio stream. I set this program to output the file as .m2ts -- which it does without re-encoding -- so that it's AVCHD compatible. VideoRedo doesn't have the facility to burn a blu-ray or AVCHD, which is why I'm then putting the .m2ts file into VSX4. But, the file is already AVCHD and so I don't want VSX4 to encode it, just burn it to disc.

[Ken Berry]

But the point I am making is that your do NOT have AVCHD video, which is mpeg-4 -- you have high definition mpeg-2. As you said above:

File
File format: MPEG-2 (Transport stream)

They both share the .m2ts extension, but when it is mpeg-2 in that .m2ts wrapper, it is in fact Blu-Ray mpeg-2 and not AVCHD.

I am not sure I have Video ReDo any longer on my computers, and if I did, it would probably be an old version, so I can't check. But is there a setting which will output to AVCHD/mpeg-4? Or perhaps a better way of putting it would be to ask what setting you use to output this video...

[garywood84]

Hi Ken,

Thanks very much for this further information. I've been battling with this for months, but thanks to your comments, I think I'm finally starting to get my head around it!

They both share the .m2ts extension, but when it is mpeg-2 in that .m2ts wrapper, it is in fact Blu-Ray mpeg-2 and not AVCHD.

So, is that to say that if I use a blu-ray disc instead of a DVD, it wouldn't need to be re-encoded?

I am not sure I have Video ReDo any longer on my computers, and if I did, it would probably be an old version, so I can't check. But is there a setting which will output to AVCHD/mpeg-4? Or perhaps a better way of putting it would be to ask what setting you use to output this video...

VideoRedo will output a lot of different formats, and I'm attaching a screenshot of the list. I can choose any of the H.264 formats and VideoRedo will outout without re-encoding. But, if I'm understanding you correctly, that's where the problem lies. These files are suitable for burning to bluray without re-encoding, but not AVCHD - is that right? I'd assumed that H.264 was AVCHD compatible by definition, but is that not the case? (If so, then a related issue is why when I select "Do not convert MPEG compliant files" in the Create Disc window of VSX4, it suggests that the file doesn't need to be re-encoded).

VRD-Output-Formas.gif (10.17 KiB) Viewed 6008 times

[Ken Berry]

I'd assumed that H.264 was AVCHD compatible by definition, but is that not the case?

Yes it *is* the case. High definition mpeg-4 encoded using the H.264 codec *is* AVCHD. But just because it has the .m2ts extension does not make it AVCHD since that extension is also used by high def mpeg-2 in Blu-Ray format. FWIW, Wikipedia has this to say about .m2ts:

The .m2ts is a filename extension used for the BDAV MPEG-2 Transport Stream container file format. It is used for multiplexing audio, video and other streams. It is based on the MPEG-2 transport stream container.[2][3][4][5] This container format is commonly used for high definition video on Blu-ray Disc and AVCHD.[6]

I am trying, with difficulty, to find a simple way of putting all this... Let's try this... A Blu-Ray video disc can use any one of three different formats: AVCHD mpeg-4; high def mpeg-2; and Microsoft's VC-1. And in the STREAM sub-folder of the BDMV/BDAV folder of a Blu-Ray disc, you will find all the video files using -- at least in the first two cases -- a five digit number followed by the extension .m2ts e.g. 00000.m2ts.

An AVCHD hybrid disc, as its name implies, can only use AVCHD. A standard def DVD can only use mpeg-2 with certain characteristics (and in some cases the archaic mpeg-1).

Now you still have not said which output you actually selected in Video ReDo to produce the files whose properties you gave. But what I am saying is that while you think you produced an AVCHD file, you actually produced a high def mpeg-2 file which uses the m2ts extension. And trying to burn a hybrid disc with such a file will require it to be converted to AVCHD mpeg-4.

[garywood84]

Thanks, Ken. This makes sense, except that:

Now you still have not said which output you actually selected in Video ReDo

H.264 M2TS, but I've also tried all the other H.264 formats, without success. I've focussed on M2TS, though, because I understood that this was the format needed to burn onto the disc.

But what I am saying is that while you think you produced an AVCHD file, you actually produced a high def mpeg-2 file which uses the m2ts extension.

That's certainly what VSX4 is saying, as the properties I've posted above show. But, when I re-open the file in VideoRedo, it reports that it's MPEG4! And, that makes sense, on several counts:

• VideoRedo isn't re-encoding the video -- my processing with that program just strips out the unwanted second audio steam that seems to give VSX4 problems -- and the video came from a DVB-S broadcast on BBC HD, which is H.264 MPEG4.
• In VideoRedo, there's also an MPEG2 MT2S output format (see the list in my previous post above), and if I select this, the program does re-encode the file, evidenced by the fact that it says it will, but also the fact that it takes significantly longer to output the file.
• VSX4 seems to think the video doesn't need re-encoding for AVCHD DVD insofar as when I add it to the DVD project, if I toggle "Do not re-encode compliant files", the indication of the size of the file on the disc increases between the original M2TS file size and a larger, re-encoded size.

So, I'm still confused by this. On the one hand, what you say seems to make sense, but on the other, the behaviour of both VSX4 and VideoRedo seems to suggest otherwise.

If you're not entirely fed up trying to help me with this issue(!) would it help if I posted online a short clip of one of my videos so you can actually see and play with it?

[Ken Berry]

Yes, I confess I am scratching my head over this one. What I had been hoping to see in that Video ReDo list your posted was an H.264 output file with .mts as the extension, which is certainly the "pure" AVCHD extension used in AVCHD camcorders. But the only one there is .ts, and AFAIK VS will not recognise that one either... I assume that there is no 'AVCHD' listed as a separate category in ReDo...?

But yes, it would certainly help if I had a small sample to play with...

[garywood84]

Hi Ken,

Thanks for this. I've uploaded a zip file containing some samples to my Dropbox for you to download from the following link:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19733878/SampleVideos.zip

There are three files: the original (although I have run this through VideoRedo to cut it shorter and make it small enough to send to you); a H.264 M2TS file; and a H.264 MP4 file. The original file is just cut shorter, but still contains multiple audio streams. As you'll see, VSX4 will open this, but it plays the wrong audio stream (with audio description) and there's no way to change this, hence my running it through VideoRedo to strip this audio stream out. The M2TS and MP4 files are the same clip, but with the incorrect audio stream removed.

I hope this helps, anyway, and look forward to seeing what make of it!

Thanks again for your continued help.

[Trevor Andrew]

Yes, I confess I am scratching my head over this one. What I had been hoping to see in that Video ReDo list your posted was an H.264 output file with .mts as the extension, which is certainly the "pure" AVCHD extension used in AVCHD camcorders. But the only one there is .ts, and AFAIK VS will not recognise that one either... I assume that there is no 'AVCHD' listed as a separate category in ReDo...?

But yes, it would certainly help if I had a small sample to play with...

Hi Ken

Maybe I have this wrong but I see H264. M2TS as an option, is this similar/same as to MTS

VRD-Output-Formas.jpg (109.63 KiB) Viewed 5995 times

[erdna]

I think that AVCHD for DVD has a bitrate limit of 18Mb/s. Could this cause the re-render?

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

I read it that Ken had said the files were Bluray types and would need re-coding to use them as AVCHD.
So this would cause a render.

I downloaded the files, I am unable to view the MP4

I viewed the properties of the ts and m2ts clips, the bit rate was not showing only as Variable?
Strange that there is no amount

The ts and m2ts types were added to the burner module (AVCHD) the render froze after a while.
I then added each in turn to the editing timeline and choose Share Create Video File AVCHD 1440
This successfully rendered the clips.
I then added each new file to the burner module and successfully created a AVCHD Folder

[Ken Berry]

Trevor -- I have been assuming that in fact he chose the .m2ts option, but if he did, then you will see from the properties he posted above that it shows up as mpeg-2, even though using the H.264 codec. Hence my own confusion since mpeg-2 using the .m2ts is the Blu-Ray format as opposed to the AVCHD one.

Anyway, I am now downloading his samples, and will come back separately on that.

But Erdna could also be right. If VS is for some reason reading the properties wrongly, and it is indeed true AVCHD video, then a bitrate higher than 18 Mbps (or notionally, 20 Mbps which VS permits), then that would be a reason for a recode since as he says, an AVCHD hybrid disc has a limit of 18 Mbps.