AVCHD DVDs

[lex22]

I'm new here. A little history first. I am just a guy trying to make nice videos for his family. I have a Canon HF-S100 HD video camera which shoots very nice HD video in AVCHD format. I had been using Pinnacle Studio HD to author AVCHD DVDs. The program's stability (actually, the lack thereof) became unbearable so I got VideoStudio Pro X4. I really like the stability and the way you use it to make videos, but I do have one complaint, and that is that the AVCHD DVD's it renders have noticeably inferior video quality than Pinnacle or the native file. Any idea what I'm doing wrong or are their ways to beef up the rendering engine? The rendered video does not handle motion well. The picture is jittery and not as sharp as the native file.

Here is my environment:
Windows 7 Home Premium
Intel Core i7
nVidia GTX260 (Dell's version)
12gigs of RAM.
Seagate Barracuda XT HDD with lots of space.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Ken Berry]

Welcome to the forums!

Unfortunately, we are not mind readers here!! While you have given us some information, we have to guess at a couple of the more important things... The first is a description of your workflow, and in particular whether, after you finished editing, you selected Share > Create Video File > AVCHD, or whether you selected Share > Create Disc > AVCHD.

Normally, we recommend people use the first workflow, and produce a new video file of your edited project, then go back and select the second one to open the burning module. Then insert the new file in the burning module for authoring. However, I have to say that when producing my own AVCHD hybrid discs, I use the second method. I finish editing, then jump straight to Create Disc. The burning module opens and the project file is already there in the burning timeline. I do this because I find that I have more control over the burn properties that way and thus the final quality of the disc.

As you may be aware, quality is a factor of the bitrate used by the video. Your camera is capable of 17 Mbps at the highest quality setting, and your burn properties should use this same bitrate to maintain the same quality as the original. So once you finish editing, select Share > Create Disc > AVCHD. The burning module will open with the project file in the timeline. (Note that the project file is *not* a video file -- just a small text file telling the program what video is included, where it is stored, and what editing was done to it.) Click the middle of the three icons in the bottom left of screen, the cogwheel one. In the dialogue box which appears, the upper window should contain a set of properties which will govern the burn. By default it will look like this:
MPEG files
24 bits, 1920 x 1080, 29.97 fps (if you are in NTSC territory, 25 fps in PAL)
Upper Field First
(HDMV-PAL), 16:9
H.264 Video
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 16000 kbps)
LPCM Audio, 48000 Hz, Stereo

You will see that the bitrate or 'video data rate' by default is less than your camcorder's maximum. Just by itself this indicates that the final disc will be of lower quality than the original. I have also found that though it says 16,000 kbps, in practice the *average* bitrate is 12,000 kbps and this lowers the final quality still more.

However, just below that properties window, you will see a button labelled 'Change MPEG Settings'. Click that, and in the drop down menu, click Customise. In the new dialogue box which appears, select the Compression tab. You have a couple of choices here which will affect the final quality. The first is to change the Video data rate from its default 16000 kbps up to at least 17 kbps (though I in practice tend to use the maximum allowable here of 18000 kbps since this keeps the *average* data rate -- and thus the final quality -- higher). You can also tick the box beside 'Two pass encode'. This means the program will make a first pass to work out the optimum data rate to be used in various parts of the video, and in the second pass it applies those rates more accurately (and thus better quality). You could also push up the quality slider at the top from its default 90 to 100 -- though I personally leave this one alone. In the audio setting at the bottom, I would choose Dolby as the audio format as this is more highly compressed than LPCM and thus allows more space on the disc for video to be burned. Still at those settings, you have to accept that you will probably get no more than around 23 to 25 minutes of AVCHD on a single layer DVD.

If, on the other hand, your workflow was the first one described above, and you first converted your edited video into a new AVCHD file, which choice did you make among the four which appear when you select 'Create Video File'? If you selected either of the first two, you will perhaps have noticed they are followed by a "P". This means progressive high def AVCHD using solid single frames at 29.97/25 fps, whereas your camcorder is only capable of creating interleaved half-frame videos. To get the solid frames, the video has to be converted by the program with the half frames interleaved into one solid frame before the final video is produced. This could also have been where you are seeing loss of quality. In other words, to maintain the same type of interleaved video as the original, you should choose the third option (1920 x 1080 but with no final P). You will see in the dialogue box which appears that it correctly will show Upper Field First (instead of Frame Based if you selected P). It also uses my preferred 18000 kbps...

If you use this workflow, then after producing the new AVCHD, open a new project. Don't bother about a name -- the objective is to clear the timeline. Otherwise, when you open the burning module, it will be the project file which is still inserted for burning, and not your new video. So when the burning module opens, there should be nothing in its timeline. Then click the top left button in the burning screen 'Add video files' and navigate to where your new file is and select it. It should then appear in the timeline. Click that cogwheel icon in the bottom left of screen and make sure the box beside 'Do not convert compliant MPEG files' is ticked. That way you make sure no further conversion occurs and no further quality lost using this workflow.

[Natal]

His camera shoots at 24 mbps, like all consumer Canon HD video cameras, not 17 mbps.

If he is shooting at 24 mbps (which he allmost certainly is) then he will be forced to re-render his footage at a lower bit rate if he uses H.264 (either AVCHD or Blu-Ray). Videostudio H.264 encoding is useless. That is the source of his problem.

Since he is burning AVCHD discs the only way to avoid VS's H.264 engine is to shoot at 17 mps and have the "do not convert compliant mpeg files" checked off.

For the stuff he allready has shot at 24 mbps his options are as follows:

A) Prepare a file in VS using the "same as first clip" preset (do NOT use the VS Blu-Ray or AVCHD H.264 presets, or you will have the same problem) and then find some device that will play such a file back directly on your TV.
B) Burn a Blu-Ray disc using the mpeg2 option (this will result in some image degradation, but VS does a much better job converting to mpeg2 than H.264). If you burn a Blu-Ray disc, and your original footage is 24 mbps, DO NOT use the H.264 presets, as these are capped at lower bit rates and will kill quality.

[lex22]

Thanks to both of you. I will try both and see what the results look like.

Natal, if VideoStudio's AVCHD rendering is not good for what I'm trying to do, what do you recommend? I see you have a Canon camcorder so what do you use and do? I'd prefer not to have to burn blu ray since I would need a new drive and the media is much more expensive. Also, if I shoot at 17 and instead of 24, is the quality difference noticeable?

[lex22]

So I re-did my video using the settings from Ken Berry. Video quality was much improved, and pretty much on par with what Pinnacle was outputting. Neither are as good as the files straight of the camera, but I guess that is the way it will be, at least until I can get a blu ray burner or Corel (or a competitor) improves itsr AVCHD rendering engine.

Thanks again.

[Ken Berry]

I realise it is not the optimum soution, but you could also see what the quality using 17 Mbps is like and whether you can live with it. Heaven knows, before the new 24 Mbps maximum, thousands of users around the world were using cameras with a maximum of 18 Mbps or even 16 Mbps with great satisfaction. And using video at either of those bitrates, I have produced all my hybrid discs at 18 Mbps and to my eyes at least, they look as crystal clear and sharp as the originals.

[39_Steps]

His camera shoots at 24 mbps, like all consumer Canon HD video cameras, not 17 mbps.

Not exactly. Depends on the definition of "Full HD" and "HD" perhaps. The original poster's camera was stated to be a Canon (Vixia) HF-S100 camera which does support the 24Mbps bitrate. However the earlier model Canon HF-100 maximum bitrate is 17Mbps interlaced at 60fps.

I have the earlier Canon HF-100 (not HF-S100) and Visual studio 11.5+ and found out three years ago that my underpowered Vista laptop was of little use with the combination for either playing or rendering. So I purchased a Western Digital WD TV "HD Media Player" to play the segmented AVCHD files on a 1080 line Television directly from SD memory cards or external USB drives.

I then all but forgot that VS 11.5 plus was on the computer until the C:\ hard drive partition ran out of space recently. So I have been avidly reading CPU, video graphics "discrete" card GPU, and software reviews and forums for the last week or two. When I found the Corel site again, I ordered Visual Studio X4 (non-ultimate) to use when and if I upgrade hardware from the little laptop in some manner or other.

So I will pop in again from time to time, but try to keep it to a minimum unless I get something actually working with VS-X4.