Is it possible to convert 23.96fps to SMOOTH 25fps

[jparnold]

I am trying to include a video clip from an MPEG4 video which is 23.96fps into a video which I want to use at 25fps (PAL DVD).
No matter what I do the output is slightly jerky (in a pattern about every second) which I assume is caused by converting 23.96 fps to 25 fps.
Is there a way to do this with a smooth video output?

[Ron P.]

Not really, since the program has to create from something that's not there, an additional 1.04 frames. It does this by duplication. How good a quality is your MP4 file? I ask because you can try first to convert the MP4, 23.96 file to DV using the same frame rate. Then use the DV to try the conversion to PAL. I'm just thinking that since DV is far less compressed than MP4, the codec may have a little better chance of producing a smoother file. You can also try to use Super to do the conversion.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

In addition make sure your field order is not being changed, however the Mp4 may use frame based, but worth checking

[jparnold]

Thanks Ron and Trevor.

The MP4 video is VERY high quality.

I will try out both your suggestions but I had already thought that converting 23.96 (according to GSpot it is 23.976) to 25 would have resulted in adding 1.04 (1.024) to the output (as Ron mentioned) and it probably would be impossible to do that without doing a 'freeze frame' to pad it out resulting in a noticeable 'lag' every second. Anyway I considered it worth an 'ask'.


What is a frame rate of 23.96 anyway? Is that the old frame rate movies used to be shot at (just wondering why 23.96)?

Thanks

[Trevor Andrew]

Thanks Ron and Trevor.

The MP4 video is VERY high quality.

I will try out both your suggestions but I had already thought that converting 23.96 (according to GSpot it is 23.976) to 25 would have resulted in adding 1.04 (1.024) to the output (as Ron mentioned) and it probably would be impossible to do that without doing a 'freeze frame' to pad it out resulting in a noticeable 'lag' every second. Anyway I considered it worth an 'ask'.


What is a frame rate of 23.96 anyway? Is that the old frame rate movies used to be shot at (just wondering why 23.96)?
Thanks

As far as i know its NTSC Standard frame rate not Pal

[jparnold]

Thanks Trevor
I 'Googled' NTFS frame rate and found that in fact they use TWO frame rates in NTFS 24 (I guess 23.96) and also 29.97.
Strange that they are not integer values.

[erdna]

When NTSC was first "invented" (black and white TV) the standard framrate was 30Hz (USA mains related). When color TV started there were a number of problems identified w.r.t.the subcarrier visibility on the existing B&W sets when color TV programs were received. A bit a long storry about conflicting choices, but it all ended with a 3.58 Mhz chroma subcarrier frequency and the known not integer framerate. BTW even if you would flowlessly convert to 25 (which is for this caser done by just speeding up the timescale), viewing on a PC screen means another conversion to at least 60p

[aljimenez]

There are many programs that can create frames from neighboring frames. One commercial program is Twixtor (sp?), and a more cumbersome way is to use the free combination avsynth+MVTOOLS+virtualdub, which I have used (take a look at http://vimeo.com/25648604 ). These methods can, for example, double the frame rate, and then adjusting to another frame rate is more accurate. I use this technique to create fairly smooth slow-motion. For sure if the source has too much movement in the captured frame rate, then no method is going to do that good of a job. The key is to capture fast moving action in the highest frame rate the camera gives; I have inserted a frame in 60 fps captured video to achieve very smooth slow motion... Al

[skier-hughes]

Where has this video come from?

[jparnold]

Thanks Al, Twixtor is a plugin for expensive software which I don't have so I won't go there and the free method looks a bit too complex for this little fella but thanks anyway. I only intend to use a few seconds of the video so it looks like I will put up with the slight 'jitter' every second (my family probably won't even notice).

Graham the video came from the Vimeo web site and I was hoping to add a few seconds of it to an upcoming home movie (for my families use only) I hope to put together later this year.

[skier-hughes]

Seems an odd frame rate for vimeo to be using, or do they support whatever it is that people upload? I'm not a vimeo user

[jparnold]

Well I 'captured' the video using Replay Media Capture without converting it and it was saved as a FLV file at 23.9 Fps.

[skier-hughes]

Does it have any other settings then?
Or maybe google other youtube downloaders to see if they give a getter result.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

Now I have looked into Video Studio templates to find a frame rate of 23.96fps, couldn’t find any, till you mentioned Flash (now why did I miss flash) , VS does seem to use 23.976. for a frame rate using flash.

By the way John, what is the quality like when you convert the video to 25 fps?

[Ron P.]

I use the freebie that comes with Real Player, not the Plus version. I've tried to find a video on Vimeo that would download, 1-in FLV format, 2-using the 23.96 frame rate. So far all that I've found download using The Real Player Download, as *.mp4, and frame rate of 30fps. However if I download from YouTube, most of those download as FLV, and I must convert them.