MPEG encoding and advanced settings PROBLEM SOLVED

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

I have been reading this post with interest, anything to improve quality is surly a good thing.
I was wondering how to check my quality till I read Radioman62 reply

“I have a 16:9 TV set now but my videos are 4:3 so the black bars at the side together with the dark-grey background in the movie (where it should be black in my opening sceenes of every video) clearly tells me the difference in black/white range.”

So I created a slide show, placed a black clip as a lead in, just to make sure I was viewing the video I placed a text over the black clip.

Some images being portrait showed a large border, just what I wanted, I rendered the project to the standard Mpeg2 DVD 4:3 template.
Burned the Mpeg2 file to disc
Played on the widescreen TV making sure I used 4:3 aspect on the TV.

Well I cannot see any difference between the video’s border and the TV screens black areas.
The black lead-in shows as black, the portrait borders show as black the same as the TV

Certainly no Dark Grey background as mentioned by Radioman62.

So what am I missing, Video Studio for me renders black as black.
If it was the Video Studios encoder then surely everyone would have a similar problem??????????????

[Radioman62]

Yes Trevor this is strange.
And I have the same problem as I had 6 years ago with other computer/processors and TV sets and DVD players.
I'm sure it's this setting "RGB 16-232" that does the trick, because I get exactly the same problem in the standalone encoder from MainConcept as in VS when I untick it.
I'm on PAL though, are you? What else could it possibly be?

[erdna]

hi radioman, good for you that you solved your problem for your equipment. For me, like I wrote earlier, this remains a confussing issue. Just read http://www.glennchan.info/articles/tech ... setup.html

[skier-hughes]

Buy one of Ben Waggoner's books on compression, he's excellent on the topic and very easy to read/understand!

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Radioman62

Yes I am in the UK and use Pal……..
I have tried in vane to produce a dvd that shows the black borders other than black.
Trying various options including creating a NTSC version.
Changing apply colour filters for Pal/Ntsc

The only way I managed to get a slightly different colour was to change the background from black to a very dark grey, that produced the background that showed on the TV, which you would expect.

By the way if you drop a Black Colour into the overlay track it should sit as a small clip in the centre.
I assume you don’t see any difference in colours.

I’ll keep on trying a few more options but don’t hold much hope in creating the dark Gery border?

[Radioman62]

hi radioman, good for you that you solved your problem for your equipment. For me, like I wrote earlier, this remains a confussing issue. Just read http://www.glennchan.info/articles/tech ... setup.html

Hi erdna and thanks for the link.

I havent exactly solved my problems even if I now know a bit more now.
The big problem is that I can't get a DVD with 5.1 AC3 audio with any other software I have. Procoder seems to be able to make VOB files with 5.1 audio. All looks good in the "target" settings and it also recognice the 6 channels in the source audio. But there is no audio at all when I play the burned DVD from those VOBS. (I burn with Nero)
Procoder can't do a muxed single MPEG file with AC3 in it, like VS says it does, only two program streams with one audio and one videofile. Then I need some other software to mux and do VOBS to burn ....
The old standalone Mainconcept encoder says my source Wav file have 6 channels but it cant do AC3 audio when muxed to an Mpeg file.

I wonder if I really get 5.1in VS when doing the intermediate stage everyone suggests... making the mpeg file first and then load that one to make a disk.
Im testing many options right now and my time is limited because this summer vacation is over. No I have to use the nights again ... and be a zoombie at work
My wife looks at me right now to see if I'm near a brain-meltdown.

[Radioman62]

When I watch my MPEG encoded mpeg files in windows media player they all look good. It's only when I burn them to DVD's and then play them back as DVD movies, the black level issue shows it's ugly face. Which gives .. ? I don't know.

That´was not all true.. but very near.
Playing with "Media Player Classic - home cinema" and windows media player in W7, black is black.
Playing with VLC player or the player inside VS, after adding the media and also in step 2 "preview", before output and burning, looks washed out when played but not when paused!
If I pause the movie in those players the black is black again. Immidietly when I play the black goes dark grey again.

What can I say? You are probably laughing at me now. I find it a bit amusing myself, even though I'm not very happy about this in the long run. I want to make movies without all this issues around the softwares.

[Natal]

VS is an entry level hobbyist editing suite, costing £60.
Canopus procoder is a professional encoding programme, costing £400 and does just one little piece of what VS does.

You've got to expect some differences in what they do.

As you have an early version of procoder I'd use that to make my mpeg file, it'll do a far superior job than anything else.

Then use VS to author your dvd.

That is not an excuse, the encoder is the core of what we pay for, that needs to be kept up to spec and current before all else. The sad fact however is that that part of the program has seen very little attention from at least before VS12. So what exactly are we paying for? For them to inlcude the burner module into VS in VS12, to take it out again in X3 and replace it with a hopeless but pretty interface, then in X4 to put the old one back again (as well as waste resources on fake 3D that looks like cr*p). So really the working parts of the program predate VS12. I think that is the real issue here, we want a current engine but instead they give us pretty fluff.

[Radioman62]

Hi Radioman62
I’ll keep on trying a few more options but don’t hold much hope in creating the dark Gery border?

I hope you mean the black in the movie or stillpicture? The borders outside my 4:3 videos are allways black.

[Radioman62]

I wonder if I really get 5.1in VS when doing the intermediate stage everyone suggests... making the mpeg file first and then load that one to make a disk.

Confirmed to work OK. The 5.1 audio is preserved in the encoded mpeg file from VS.

This night I tried the Mainconcept reference 2.2 standalone encoder. It can also encode an mpeg2 file from an uncompressed avi and an AC3 wav file. The application is free and uses DEMO mode for all standards exept the plugins you buy. If I want the two plugins I need, the mpeg2 and Dolby Digital professional (AC3) encoder, I have to spend 740 Euro

So maybe it's time to abandon VS and test something else?
Has anyone tried the new Cyberlinks Powerdirector version 9? Similar userinterface as in VS and fast 64 bit support which I can gain faster renderings from. Its' the double price compared to VS but at 89.95 us$ seems fair I think. (Deluxe version = 32bit at 69.95$)
If it could make descent mpegs offcource....
The downside is it can't do Dolby Digital audio and my large Smartmusic collection doesn't work in Powerdirector. They have something similar though.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Radioman62
I’ll keep on trying a few more options but don’t hold much hope in creating the dark Gery border?

I hope you mean the black in the movie or stillpicture? The borders outside my 4:3 videos are allways black.

Hi

I am comparing any black that should show within the 4:3 frame, a colour black as a lead-in, a pure black Jpeg image or the border to the left and right of a portrait type image to the unused borders of the TV screen. These are the borders outside the 4:3 video and as you say are always black.

[erdna]

The only thing tthat I can add is that PC images (graphics, animation movies...) use 0-256 by default. Digital video has a 16-235 default for the luma range. Maybe depending on the first file (PC or video) VS sets 0 or 16 as black

[skier-hughes]

VS is an entry level hobbyist editing suite, costing £60.
Canopus procoder is a professional encoding programme, costing £400 and does just one little piece of what VS does.

You've got to expect some differences in what they do.

As you have an early version of procoder I'd use that to make my mpeg file, it'll do a far superior job than anything else.

Then use VS to author your dvd.

That is not an excuse, the encoder is the core of what we pay for, that needs to be kept up to spec and current before all else. The sad fact however is that that part of the program has seen very little attention from at least before VS12. So what exactly are we paying for? For them to inlcude the burner module into VS in VS12, to take it out again in X3 and replace it with a hopeless but pretty interface, then in X4 to put the old one back again (as well as waste resources on fake 3D that looks like cr*p). So really the working parts of the program predate VS12. I think that is the real issue here, we want a current engine but instead they give us pretty fluff.

That's not an excuse it's a reason. YOu might want teh encoder to be the core, others might want fancy transitions and hundreds of them. You can pay hundreds of pounds for a professional editing suite to include the latest that procoder offers you as an all in one. You cannot expect a £50 programme to be the same as a £600 programme. Buy Edius and have it all, buy VS and expect there will be compromises. Yes it should all work, but there will be differences.

[Ron P.]

I agree with Skier-Hughes, putting it into a tangible perspective, it's the difference of this:

Sony HDC 1500L44, which will set you back a mere $99,750.US

and something like this:

Canon AH-A1s, only $2,895. US

I would hope the Sony is capable of producing a much better quality video than the Canon, since they ask just a little more for it. They both record video, HD included, both are considered Professional camcorders, just one must use more expensive, better technology than the other. I think if Canon tried to use the same technology used in the Sony, they could not sell it at the low price they do.

[skier-hughes]

I'd even go more to this,
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canon-LEGRIA-De ... 155&sr=8-1

You can't call VS a professional programme Good as it is, it is really aimed at the hobbyist.