1080p rendering problem - anyone have a 1080p camcorder?

[arix]

I have also TM700 and input files are 1080P / 50.
in CUSTOM ( or template manager) if i select 50 frames / second (frame type frame based)
the "Standard" moves to 1280x720 without the ability to change it
back to 1080....(beside 18000 vbr is not so good for 1080P (panasonic
create it in VBR 27000)
same problem when I tried MPEG-2 HD 1080P 50fps.
I chosed MPEG-2 (and uncheck the AVCHD option)
If i chose 50 frames/second the standard moves to 720
without the ability to change it back to 1080....
If i chose do as the first clip, I get PAL DVD
In my old Version X2, I can produce MPEG-2 HD 1080P 50fps !!
The standard doesn't move to 720 , and I get real 1080P 50fps.
Of course with High bitrate (up to 60000) , yea , big file but loss-less.

[erdna]

Indeed arix, I just tested your workflow with my VSX2, and it delivers video content marked in MediaInfo as 50.000fps, BUT each frame is being used twice.(MediaInfo doesnt "know" this detail) Please check with the special 1080p50 counter video I provided in this thread. In e.g. Splash lite the counter only changes every two clicks in a frame by frame mode, as opposed to the original which goes up one frame/click.

[arix]

,Hi erdna
I didn't write it in my previous post,
but It's very important to use 50 frames / second as template for editing.
In VSX2 before import the files:
File >> Project properties >> Edit
In Compression tab select Media type MPEG-2, put high bitrate (36000 or more)
in General tab put frame rate 50 frames / second, frame type: frame based
Frame size standard 1920x1080 , OK
now import your file, press on one of the files (like you want to edit)
and start play with the arrow and see the frame counter moves between
0 to 49, please note that you should see little change for each frame,
means your input is real 50 frames / second...
Now edit your file and do as I wrote in my previous post.
To check if your output MPEG-2 is real 50 frames it's very simple:
open new project, define the template for editing again to 50 frames / second
(as you did before) and import the output file you produce before.
select on the file (like you want to edit it) and press on the arrow frame by frame
and see if you get little change between frames (0 to 49), which means it's real 50 frames!!
Beside I can see the it's real 50 frames in my Panasonic TV V20 50 inch - when there is fast move, i see the movement very smooth...

[erdna]

I agree, the output content is definitely 50p, BUT at a 25p frame refresh. The fact that you get smooth pictures on a modern flatscreen (with multiple frame interpolation) doesn't mean you have a 50Hz native refresh. The only point is that frame interpolation is a lossy process, so that you can get a "better" image with native 50Hz refresh. Could you plse download my 1080p50 test clip, and verify yr result the way I suggest?. Using your workflow, I only get 50p with repeated frames, resulting in a 25p temporal resolution. There are several NLE's able to process 50p...but generate the correct 50p content is another story.
B.t.w. how do you visualise your edited content on your flatscreen?

[arix]

erdna , did you try to open new project as I suggested with template editing 1080P? (VSX2, project properties > project template properties >> MPEG files)
I get result 50P and each frame is not same as previous one, which mean
it's not "25 refresh".
Before i made it 50P, I used the "normal" way 25 frames /sec
which create 50 field interlace.
as results I see on my TV not smooth picture while fast horizontal movement even my TV has refresh 600 Hertz with modern interpolation...
not smooth I mean very small jumps between frames, something that only me can see or someone that understand video, for sure my wife can't see it
After I made it real 50P, i can watch smooth picture on my TV while fast horizontal movement.
If I put the "normal" way (25 frames /sec ) output as input to my 50P template editing I see each frame twice.
If I put my workflow video result as input my 50P template editing I see each
frame not same as the previous one.
I tried your file as input to my 50P template editing and get 48 "numbers"
for each second instead 50, for example if time-line on 5 second, the counter show 240 instead 250.

[erdna]

arix, in order to well understand eachother, I suggest, after setting the right project properties (50fps,1920x1080,mpeg2,50000kbs,..) that you put my original .mp4 testfile (containing numbered frames) in the VSX2 timeline, if you then go frame by frame in the VS monitoring window, do you then see frames which go up one numer at the time (1,2,3,4,...thus odd and even numbers)?

[arix]

erdna, yes, i can see the counter up frame by frame from 0 to 49 for each second (your counter missed 1 during frame 15 in the first second)
I made few pics (screen save) , but I have no place to upload them
(I have no facebook etc..)
Edit:
I think I found why it's not working in your side.
First uncheck smart proxy from preference and close VS.
open again VS2 and create the 50 frames second project.
After you create new project with 50 frames / second , save the project
and close VS (don't add yet any video)
open again VS2 and open the project you just created, then load your video.
If you do all without close the VS , you get just ODD numbers in your movie..

[erdna]

I followed all your suggestions, as far as I could, because your last info is confusing to me.
You wrote:
"After you create new project with 50 frames / second , save the project
and close VS (don't add yet any video)"
Do tou mean "render" the project as a videoclip clip and save this 50p clip, or save the project as a .VSP project file (=VS terminologie)

" open again VS2 and open the project you just created, then load your video."
When I "open the "projext " (.VSP), the video is already on the timeline...then " load your video" what do I have to load further?

In order to stop this confusion, could you mail me just about 1 second (~50frames ~ 6MB) of your 50p render result for my testfile?
Plse send it to andre.declercq_at_pandora.be (where _at_ stands for @ )

(EDIT: André -- I edited the above so that your email address cannot be hijacked... I should note that I too was confused, though I think he was suggesting you create an empty project with properties fixed. Only, how he set 50p as the project property remains a mystery to me...)

[arix]

Please not that I made it with VSX2, project can't save 50P with VSX4.
I meant to create empty project (VSP file) without any clip and this project can be template for all future 50P editing.
Anyway, I'll send you my template, jpg, and 1 second video result.

[erdna]

Fantastic arix!!! I got yr mail and I get 50p! This is new to me (and I suppose other forum members too! Now I have to find out what I did wrong...anyway, thank you very much for your persistant help, and I will come back with more info about my mis interpretations about yr information.

[arix]

You are welcome !

[erdna]

Arix, now I understand what I did wrong...I had to first create a project template (empty) project file, and open VSx2 with this .VPS template. In fact your wrote it, but ik kept to misinterprete...Sorry therefore, English is not my native language.
As you maybe know, there are some issues with VSX2 (see "transition blibs"). That was the main reason why I left VSX2. In the mean time I did some 50p tests with my numbered frames on crossfades and title inserts, and this blibs too seems to be (almost) solved. Remains only visible (to my eyes) in a frame by frame mode, and like you mentioned, my counter itselfsometimes misses a count...

[Ken Berry]

It would be helpful if your, arix, could give a more detailed explanation, perhaps accompanied by images, of what you need to do to get this template or project file. With X2 open, when I select either Project Properties or Make Movie Template Manager, then select MPEG as the output, then the mpeg-2 properties, under both General and Compression conform only to standard definition properties for an mpeg-2.

[arix]

OK, I'll try to write short guide with images , is there any way to upload imeges directly here ? As I got (from the "Img" in this box) I need to host them somewhere and give link.

[Ken Berry]

If you are in the Reply page, then down below the reply box, to the left, are two tabs: Options and Upload Attachment. Use the latter.