VSProX4 smartrenders AVCHD file but not AVCHD Disk

[bstuartb]

Help PLEASE - I BELIEVE THAT I CANNOT BE ALONE IN SUFFERING
I have a lovely Pansonic SD700 camera, taking outstanding AVCHD clips, 1080x1920i. (previously took SD and happily used VS7)

All I try to do is trim the clips & add music. There might be a very brief Title at the beginning and end.

I then try to make an "AVCHD Disk", on DVD, for simple playback on BluRay players. I actually own 3 different Bluray players, a Samsung, a Toshiba and an LG

Obviously I want nothing re-rendered that doesn't have to be. Quite apart from the time saved, the quality is preserved.

My experience : finally, using a workaround from user support, I can produce an "AVCHD File" using VSProX3 or now VSProX4. It work really fast, with Smart (ie no ) rendering. About 25 minutes of video.
This file will play perfectly, as long as you do not try fast forwarding etc, on my Toshiba and my LG Players, though the Samsung will not even acknowledge the file's existence! (several other makes are like that) but little old ladies cannot be expected to navigate file menus on their bluray.
I have then used MovieFactory 7 to import the AVCHD (mpg) File and produce an AVCHD authored Disk. The disk reads into all 3 machines easily, and the video plays perfectly (as long as you do not try to fast forward etc) UNTIL certain frames around the last 5 minutes, when the players lock up solid or otherwise go amok. Editing out the 'bad' sections seems to only shift the problem around. I have wasted 100s of hours on this.
When VSPro4X came out I was persuaded to buy it as it had allegedly fixed AVCHD problems.
1. Making the AVCHD File with VSProX4 leads to exactly the same result as above - the mpg is fine but a disk authored with MF7 is not.
2. Authoring with VSProX4 itself, either directly from the project, or via the AVCHD File route, results in 100% RE-RENDERED video. The difference is massive, nastly blotches flicker around on objects and faces. I am observing on a 40" Full-HD TV so you can call me fussy if you like. Of course VSPro4X takes a relative age to make the disk (2hrs 50min instead of less than 20 min using MF7)
BUT the Disk does load and play without hiccuping, and you CAN fast forward and back etc. So two steps forward and one very important one back. (NB outputting to AVCHD File still produces a perfect quality file, not re-rendered. It is the authoring process that insists on re-rendering, apparently)
IN SUMMARY VSProX4 refuses to make a playable AVCHD Disk without re-rendering and hence spoiling the quality. Yet it can make an AVCHD File (mpg) in perfect unmolested quality. MF7 produces AVCHD Disks without re-rendering, but they do not play properly.
PLEASE HELP. THANKYOU

[Natal]

What bit rates are you using?

X4 and MF7 should produce the same discs since the X4 authoring module appears to be allmost identical to MF7 (the authoring engine appears to have not been updated at all since at least MF7, and possible before that even). If one program is rendering and the other not, it suggests that something is set differently.

I agree with you that when it comes to HD footage that X4 is good for producing files but is horrible for authoring.

Edit: Oh, I think I can guess the problem. When you produce the files it maintains the original bit rate (and doesn't render), but, when you make hybrid AVCHD discs, the bit rate is probably being reduced. I assume your camera is shooting at 24 mbps, but AVCHD discs are limited in X4 (and MF7 for that matter) to 18 mbps. Since your original 24 mbps is allready compressed with H.264, the program has to compress it further to fit the 18 mbps standard. It does that by making areas with low contrast differentials all the same color, hence the horrible blotches and smears of uniform color you will see. I'm not sure why it does such a bad job of it, I've seen WMV HD footage with bit rates of 8 mbps that look vastly superior to the 18 mbps output from VS. Their compression engine just doesnt seem very good unfortunately. When you use the "same as original" setting to produce the files you basically by-pass the Corel rendering engine, and that is why the files look good (they are still rendered as per the camera's compression engine).

[bstuartb]

Thanks for your reply - yes I now realise that whereas MF7 prompts you to set the same properties as the original clip (and then does it for you), VSPro4X doesn't bother, and lets you fall into re-rendering. Actually my Panasonic clips are 16800kbps max data rate, and VSpro4X had defaulted to 16000.
Using a customised setting of 16800 in VSPro4X disk authoring, it duly works without re-rendering, and produces a disk that works just a faultily as when using MF7 - i.e. it starts off OK, but crashes on the Bluray players towards the last 5 minutes, or immediately if you try any fast forwarding or chapter skipping. So basically I am pretty much back where I started, the problem now being:

1 VSPro4X produces faulty AVCHD Disks if the properties are set to allow smart rendering (i.e.no re-rendering)
2 VSPro4X produces working disks if allowed to rerender my Panasonic clips from 16800kbps to 16000kbps, but the rerendering is horrid.
3 MF7 behaves like (1) above.

Panasonic's HD Writer gets it all perfectly right, but doesn't let me add a music track. I note that it seems to use a 2 stage process, creating a disk image before writing begins. Overall it took about 35 minutes for 25 minutes of video. (one long joined up clip, which it had previously been used to make)

And, really frustratingly, Pansonic HD Writer will not allow the import of mpgs made by VideoStudio....

So I am still miserable. Will anyone from Corel ever fix their product?

[Black Lab]

1 VSPro4X produces faulty AVCHD Disks if the properties are set to allow smart rendering (i.e.no re-rendering)

It has been Ken Berry's advice to not use SmartRender when working with HD. Ken has produced many AVCHD hybrid discs using this method.

[bstuartb]

Thanks, that sounds like this problem is a well established one. But since re-rendering spoils the quality of HD (another well established problem) , when is Corel going to fix their authoring sofware for AVCHD ?
It would be nice to think that someone is actually working on it. Like others, I have remained loyal to the ULead product for many years, but we cannot wait forever !

[Ron P.]

I will say in Ken's absence, that he has brought this Smart Render problem to Corel's attention on more than one occasion. He noticed early on that it appeared that Smart Render has been only developed for SD video, and that Corel should look into doing something about it for HD video. You know the rest of the story as we do. Still no go, using Smart Render with HD video.