Create movie from projects or rendered video?

[jparnold]

I'm sure that this has been covered before but I cannot find any posts.

I have always rendered my projects to DVD (mpeg) video files and then used those to 'create disk' (ie create movie).
I also thought that to prevent 'create' disk' from rendering again that all the attributes (constant or variable, kbs, audio compression) used during rendering must be the same as when creating disk.

Is there any benefit from creating a movie (for burning) using either method? Is it faster overall 'creating disk' using project files than rendering first? The reason I ask is that today it seemed to take 'forever' to 'create disk' using pre-rendered files.

I realise that you always see the warning that 'this action will take some time to render' but I thought that if all the attributes were the same that no rendering was done.

[Ken Berry]

I also thought that to prevent 'create' disk' from rendering again that all the attributes (constant or variable, kbs, audio compression) used during rendering must be the same as when creating disk.

While the above is true, it is an unnecessary extra step if the box in the cogwheel Settings icon in the bottom left of the burning screen of versions up to and including X2, as well as X4 and MF, labelled 'Do not convert compliant MPEG files' is ticked and you have inserted a fully DVD-compliant mpeg-2 file or files in the burning timeline. In those circumstances, the program is clearly instructed not to re-render the mpeg-2. The attributes in the bigger window above that in the burning module in effect only become relevant if that box is not ticked, or what you have inserted in the burning timeline is not DVD-compliant.

And a project file is not compliant in the sense that it is not yet an mpeg-2. So by inserting a project file into the timeline, it will definitely be converted according to the attributes in that burning module window, regardless of whether or not the 'Do not convert' box is ticked...

As for preferring one workflow over the other, the time taken to render into a DVD-compliant mpeg-2 will be identical regardless of whether it is done in the editing module or the burning module. Using a project file will only save the one or two seconds it takes to actually insert a DVD-compliant mpeg-2 prepared in the Editor into the burning timeline. Everything else will be identical.

The warning that 'this action will take some time to render' is normal. It is another warning you have to look out for -- 'Converting title'. If you get that, and have inserted what you think is a DVD-compliant mpeg-2 into the burning timeline, something is not right. Either the file is not fully DVD-compliant or the 'Do not convert' box is not ticked. Otherwise, if you don't get that message, all you should see is 'Converting Menu' and 'Multiplexing video and audio'.

If you have inserted a DVD-compliant file, and the burning process is taking a long time, then something else might be wrong. Normally, for a one hour mpeg-2, plus menu, to be burned to a single layer DVD, with a computer like yours, should take probably only around 16 - 18 minutes at 4x, and considerably less at higher burning speeds. It might take a little longer if you have a complicated menu.

I also found that if you select Fade-in or Fade-out for your menu, that would slow things down to a crawl, if not actually crash VS. So I just avoid choosing that with my menus.

[jparnold]

Thanks Ken

What you explained I thought was probably true but it was reassuring to read what you stated about 'Do not convert compliant MPEG files' is ticked.

BUT

The reason why I asked the question is because -
I am doing a CREATE DISK using TWO pre-rendered video files. The attributes I used to render the video files is EXACTLY THE SAME as I use to CREATE DISK yet the total time taken to create disk is 43 MINUTES for a total length of 48 minutes 52 seconds movie.
It is some time since I last created a disk (movie) and thought that this time seemed excessive. I pre-rendered my two video files again carefully checking that I had set the attributes the same (constant 8000 kbps, LCPM, 16:9) and tried again and still it took 48 minutes for the 'create disk'.
I then decided to do the same exercise with the files for the last create disk I did about 12 months ago and although the output movie (also using 2 pre-rendered video files) is longer at over one hour the disk create only took 13 minutes (33% faster). The only difference between the two is that the 'problem' movie is rendered at 8000 kbps LCPM and the old movie (which creates much faster) is rendered at 7500 variable two pass DOLBY but that should really make very little difference as the attributes all match.
The menu for both movies also is very similar - background is an image and 2 separate pre-rendered files which are displayed with 30 seconds (max) of 'animation' plus a sound file.

It seems to me that as it is taking just on 44 minutes to 'create disk' that it must be re rendering the two pre-rendered files something I don't want happening. I cannot ever remember 'create disk' taking so long and I have done 'create disk' many times over the past few years.

Any ideas why my 'new' movie is taking so long to 'create disk'?

Could the reason be that I am rendering with the audio format set at LCPM and that I should use DOLBY? I seem to remember something about the max kbps for a DVD being ?? (can't remember) and that perhaps constant video 8000kbps plus audio at LCPM might push that over the max for a DVD and hence the re rendering.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi John

The type of menu that you use has a great effect on the time it takes to burn the disc.

As you are using Compliant video files when you hit the “Burn button” the process should start with Convert Menu. From here on the time relies on the menu used and the length of the video.

Smart Menus take quite a while to render compared to Text or Thumbnail types.

If the process starts with Convert Title then your video files or VSP’s (if you have used them) are being rendered to a Mpeg compliant files saved to a temporary folder, these will be used to burn the DVD.
The render properties used are shown under the “Options Cogwheel”
Its these that you have to be aware of and set correctly.

This is what I do to burn a DVD
Open Video Studio.
From an empty timeline, Set the project properties to match my video file.
Share-Create DVD
The render properties seen under the Options Cogwheel should be the same as set above.
Add Video Files.

The Do Not Convert Compliant Video is selected by default, I never change it.

The burn process starts with Convert menu

[Ken Berry]

From an empty timeline, Set the project properties to match my video file.
...
The render properties seen under the Options Cogwheel should be the same as set above.

It is these two things which I think are unnecessary if the video you are inserting into the burning timeline is DVD-compliant and the 'Do not convert' box is ticked. In those circumstances, the DVD-compliant files are burned with their own properties, and simply ignore the render properties.

[jparnold]

Thanks for your input Andrew and Ken.

I think that I have uncovered the reason - HDD (see below)

But firstly -
My menu is a simple one using thumbnails so that doesn't come into the problem.

Also the process STARTS with CONVERT MENU (NOT convert title as Andrew suggested would cause re rendering)

Where the process is taking forever is the VIDEO/AUDIO MULTIPLEXING!

Well not in the habit of giving up and trying anything I changed two things -

Firstly please note that all my system is on my primary drive (500GB SATA HDD) and my pre-rendered mpeg files are on my second drive (40GB PATA HDD).

Secondly I 'create disk' to 'prepared folders' on hdd - I do not output to DVD (i do that later using Ashampoo).

1) Changed 'return to menu' (after playing clips) to 'continue to next clip' (in the menu) - that made no difference - as I expected.

2) Changed the OUTPUT DESTINATION from my second HDD (which is a 40GB PATA HDD and where the pre-rendered mpeg files are located) to my 'primary' drive (500GB SATA HDD) and where Windows and Videostudio is - SUCCESS! (Disk) creation times came down to a very respectible time.
Just to make sure I wasn't 'seeing things' I did the whole process again out putting (create disk) to my second hdd (extremely slow again) and then to primary drive (fast).

I would NEVER had believed it if I hadn't seen it.

Any ideas why choice of hdd makes such a huge difference?

[Ken Berry]

I guess one factor could be how much other stuff you have on the 40 GB drive. As you would be aware, 40 GB is not very large in terms of today's HDDs... Creating a DVD Folder requires not only the usual 4.3 GB for the folder itself, but could also require further wriggle room, which notionally would be another 4 Gb or so for temporary files etc. If this is done on the 40 GB drive, and that disk is already, say, three quarters full, then the transfer rate could be slowed between system disk and the 40 GB disk as the latter searches for available space to put the incoming data. But I still would not have thought it would cause a slowdown of the dimensions you described.

Another factor could be the write speed of the 40 GB drive. Is this by any chance the 5400 rpm HDD you asked about in another context recently? But again, even if it were, it would only be a contributory factor, rather than the single cause in itself...

[jparnold]

Hi Ken
Caught you at home (and me too as I now have semi retired and only work just 2 days a week).

The hdd is a Seagate ST340015A which is 40GB ATA/100 and 7200rpm and has 20GG FREE SPACE - no glaring problems there I don't think. I only added it to my system recently as a work disk and it came out of an old PC I once owned.
I just did a CheckDisk on it which didn't display any problems but noted that it was badly fragmented - maybe that contributed.

Regarding your remark about me mentioning a small drive in another post that that a post (I think) to ask if a 5400rpm was fast enough to capture video (I am considering buying a cheap notebook to take on holidays so that if I have any spare time I could start to capture video taken and even do some preliminary editing). Regarding that I wonder if a 1.6GHz Pentium duo would be fast enough.

ON another 'track' do you agree with a reply that X3 only allows downloading Movie Factory 7SE after it has been installed for a few days? I thought that seemed strange BUT my installation still does not offer it to me under the DO MORE tab (lots of other 'goodies' but not MF7SE).

[Ken Berry]

do you agree with a reply that X3 only allows downloading Movie Factory 7SE after it has been installed for a few days? I thought that seemed strange BUT my installation still does not offer it to me under the DO MORE tab (lots of other 'goodies' but not MF7SE)

When I first downloaded MF 7 SE, it definitely took several days for it to appear on one computer, and nearly two weeks on another. I cannot explain the disparity -- and personally I find this whole 'Do More/Get More' business a bit silly. But Corel is obviously wedded to it, so I guess we have to get used to it. Have you installed the patches for X3? That is what was required to activate the Do More link...

I know, however, there is a direct link to the download, but unfortunately I don't have it. Hopefully Abiel, who seems to be "Keeper of the Link" might chip in here...

[jparnold]

Thanks Ken,

I have the following installed -
VSProX3_Patch 6.99MB
VSProX3_Patch3 service pack 2 49.4MB
IncentivesSetup
GetMore_Style_01
Note that I found it odd that all these files display as coming from Ecresso Software Inc. Do they own Corel?

It also annoys me that every time I startup VS Pro X3 I get a splash screen 'reminding' me about two updates one for compatibility with Paint Shop Pro X3 (which I don't have - I have X2) and also one for improving the performance of SmartSound and at this time I have no interest in SmartSound.
Maybe I should just 'bite the bullet' and install the updates even though I don't care for them just to get rid of the reminder - what do you think?

I also am really 'cheesed off' with Corel's attitude about owners of X3 being denied the opportunity in downloading Movie Factory 7SE (ie that owners must wait some undisclosed time period before in becomes available for download). I can understand about preventing pirating but surely with software registration and proof of it being already installed on the users system AND THE FACT that the authoring module built into X3 does not work satisfactorily and the fact that owners paid for a product which obviously is flawed that Corel could do better.
I have read many replies to the post regarding MovieFactory and obviously this has affected heaps of other X3 owners most of whom have had no resolution to the problem.

Many years ago I paid for VS10 which I had so many issues with that I stopped using it and reverted to VS9 and now after paying for X3 I am not happy again. Maybe it's time to look at other products available.

[Black Lab]

John, you have been around long enough to have seen many posts similar to your last one. And you surely know that one's computer setup has as much to do with how successful VS works - why I don't know.

All I can say is X4 is much better than X3. But, unlike you, I never had problems with v10. In fact, I still use it sometimes.

I think it would be worth it to you to try the TBYB X4.

[Ron P.]

The SmartSound patch, which is 202MBs, also contains DVD MF7SE. If you install that service pack, you should then have DVD MF7SE. No need to wait several days.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

I agree with Ron

DVD MF 7SE is an additional piece of software provided after the release of VS X3.
The initial installation does not know about DVD MF, so you can wait till the cows come home…….

By installing the Service Pack will activate the download option for DVD MF 7SE.
The next time you re-start Video Studio, at least that’s what happened to me.

Smart Sound patch, I would install it just to get rid of the annoying prompts.
Smart Sounds are very good when used in moderation, maybe you are missing out on a good feature by not trying them?

Direct link for DVD MF 7SE

Service Pack 2

Hope this helps

[jparnold]

Thanks Jeff, Ron and Trevor
Especially the links.
I HAD already installed the service pack and although DO MORE was available it contained quite a few things but NOT MF7SE.
Anyway that's not a problem now.
I also now have uninstalled and reinstalled X3 as even though I installed EVERY update/patch available I was still getting that window on X3 startup which had been reminding me about the patches available but now displaying it with NOTHING - VERY annoying.

Yes I am sure that hardware configuration can affect how stable software is I have never had any other unstable software - apart from earlier version of Windows that is

Maybe I expect too much from VS as I really do 'push the limits' I think and often have clips in EVERY track available (main, overlay, title, voice and music - I have been using the overlay track as another audio track minimising the video and placing it into a corner so it won't show in the final 'movie'. Also with various transitions and multiple video filters and adjusted volume all together at the same time.

It now concerns me (I have yet to see MFSE7 working) that after all this MFSE7 may not be any better than the dvd authoring in VS9 and VS10.
Oh well I really didn't buy X3 for authoring, it was mainly for the extra audio tracks and drawing function.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi John

Did you manage to download the DVD MF 7SE from the link in my earlier post

This program is very similar to the authoring (Share Create Disc) of VS 9, 10 11, 12, X4
It may however have different menu templates but the basics are the same.