is it ok to save 50p footage as 30p???

[alexleominster]

To me it doesn't seem ideal. I can see that saving my 50p footage as 25p would be ideal as it would just drop every other frame...
However vsx3 doesn't give me the 25p option.
mp4 hd 1080x1920p only offers 30p

Is this because I set vs up as PAL region ? If I changed it to ntsc would it then offer me the 25p option?

I'm really trying to find my best "saving " option for my 1920 x 1080p footage. I use 50p so I can get good slow motion but 25p or 30p would be good output if it plays nicely..

thanks
al

[Natal]

30 fps is the NTSC rate, not the PAL rate.

[alexleominster]

Thanks
does that mean i should unistall vs and reload it selecting my region as PAL to get the 25p option...
or does 30p just add and extra 5 frames and no harm done? It looks smooth enough to me?
al

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Al

It may help if you were to tell us which TV System you use, Pal or Ntsc.
Which country do you live in?

Then knowing your original video files properties would help.
I live in the UK, so use Pal, but not all video I use is Pal some has 30fps.
So yes there does seem to be more standard video settings using Ntsc than Pal

I install Video Studio to Pal which sets the default templates to Pal.

The standard templates are just one of many, use the “Custom” option to set the properties.
Try the Make Movie Templates Manager to create your own template.

Finally what are you using the completed video for?
Burning a DVD or upload to the internet?

For internet try rendering to Custom -- AVI-Mpeg4 compression

Al
Can you edit your profile to correct the PC details shown to the right of your post.
Either supply the correct details or remove the strange text?
If you are unsure of your details please use this program
http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html
Cheers

[alexleominster]

Thanks for the detailed reply, and yes , I am in the UK and put my finished films to be on you tube or watch on my pc or tv...
however I think my real question is that my camcorder records 50p 1080p 50fps (its a sd900 panasonic) (great for slow motion) and my corel only offers the hd choice of saving as 30p.
When someone on here said 25p is best because it just drops every other frame it made sense and I wonder if the 30p is "less good qaulity". It looks ok to me but...
maybe it drops every other one then adds 5 at the end , who knows...
Regardless of my region I was asking wether I should re-install in whatever region offers me the save as 25p option regardless of where I actually live..


oh and my laptop is this one.. I will add it to my profile when I get 10 mins ... thanks
Al

#

* CQ60-101AU: AMD Athlon™ X2 Dual-Core Processor,1.90 GHz, 1MB L2 Cache
* CQ60-104TU: Intel® Pentium Dual-Core Mobile Processor T3200,2.0 GHz, 1MB L2 Cache, 667MHz FSB

# Memory

* CQ60-101AU: 1GB DDR2 667MHz(up to 3GB)
* CQ60-104TU: 2GB DDR2 667MHz(up to 3GB)

# Hard disk drive

* CQ60-101AU: 160GB SATA
* CQ60-104TU: 250GB SATA

# Optical drive

* SuperMulti 8X DVD±R/RW with Double Layer Support

# System features

* Memory card device
* 5-in-1 integrated Digital Media Reader for Secure Digital cards, MultiMedia cards, Memory Stick, Memory Stick Pro, or xD Picture cards

# Networking

* 10/100 Ethernet LAN,802.11b/g Wireless,High speed 56K modem,Bluetooth

# Display size

* 16-inch Diagonal High Definition HP Brightview Display (1366×768)

# Graphics card

* CQ60-104TU: Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 4500MHD
* CQ60-101AU: NVIDIA GeForce 8200M GE

[Ken Berry]

Thos computer specifications were obviously obtained from a purchase options page. In other words, you could buy one or the other. So we still have no idea of exactly what your computer has on board.

As for reinstalling VS, that won't help. As far as I am aware, if you are selecting mpeg-4 as the output format, that is fixed at NTSC speeds. That is also the case on my computer and I am in a PAL country and set it up for PAL. Moreover, most of my other choices are set to PAL 25 fps. And I don't think that reinstalling as NTSC would miraculously give you a PAL speed for mpeg-4 video.

But I am wondering why you are trying to output as mpeg-4... if indeed that is what you are doing. Your video is mpeg-4, yes, but it is a special version of mpeg-4, namely AVCHD. And you certainly should be able to select Share > Create Video File > AVCHD and be offered 1920 x 1080i (Upper Field First) at 25 fps.

If you are after full progressive 50 fps (PAL) (or 60 fps (NTSC)), you can in fact burn it at 1280 x 720p video and you can make a template for it in both X3 and X4 as follows:

1. Go to Settings > Make Movie Template Manager and select "MPEG Transport Stream (.m2t) as the format, and give it a name. Then click OK.

2. In the new dialogue box which appears, go to the Compression tab. Change the 'Video Format' to 'H.264 Video'. That is your mpeg-4, of course. Assign a bitrate below 20000. I use 18000. Tick the AVCHD box.

3. Go to the General tab. In the 'Frame Rate' box, select 50 (or 60/59.94 if you are in an NTSC country).

4. You will notice that the 'Frame Size' then defaults to 1280 x 720. You cannot change that as that is the only currently agreed international standard frame size for full progressive video -- despite the fact that more and more camcorders such as yours are appearing which film true progessive video at 1920 x 1080p 50/60 fps.

5. Click OK then Close, to get out of the dialogue boxes. Next time you go to Share > Create Video File, your new template should be there at the bottom of the drop down menu.

If you only want to do this for one burn, then simply select Share > Create Video File > Custom, then select 'MPEG Transport Stream (.m2t)', and proceed as outlined above.

Test both methods and see, but if your main objective is You Tube, then I am pretty sure 720p would more than meet their requirements and be very good quality to boot.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

Thanks Ken,

I have tried a few options for my YouTube but seem to have settled on Avi-Mpeg4 720p.
Seems to produce good quality, reasonably fast rendering.

I will however be trying the MPEG Transport Stream options.

[alexleominster]

Ken,
Big thank you for your detailed reply. I only just noticed you are in NZ by the way.
My favorite place ! I'm answering this on my phone so please excuse the short reply. I tried saving as hd because it seemed the best compromise. It sounds as if I need to choose either a smaller frame size, or 30 p and I'm not sure which to compromise on. I guess as you say I should try a few and see which looks best. The only avchd or mt2s save option is upper field first which I thought wouldn't be good because my native footage is frame based, at 1920 x 1080:.. The hdmpeg option let me keep all that but at 30 p which seemed nearest as I thought tvs and pcs only showed 25 p anyway. In fact I thought the naked eye only saw 25 p but that might be urban myth...
As ever thanks for being the font of all knowledge, if you weren't 12000 miles away I'd buy you a drink. al

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Ken

Make a movie template…………

Using Transport Stream I am unable to choose h264, or am I missing something?

The only options are Pal-HDMV or Ntsc-HDMV
The 1280 x 720 frame size is available when choosing 50 fps

Are you sure you can select h264 using Transport Stream?

With You Tube in mind I have created a template using TS to 1280 x 720 x 50fps
However the file sizes are quite large compared to my Avi-Mpeg4 option.
(for a 60 second video 130Mb---to—33Mb)

Alex

Given the option I would choose 25 or 50 rather than 30.
For best quality you should reflect your original properties when creating a new template, as best you can………….
Using Make Movie Manager will allow you to do this.

As your original Field Order is Frame Based it doesn’t matter which you choose, Upper or Lower.
I would choose the one that matches other videos that I may use, (Lower for Dv-Avi)
For You Tube use Frame Based

Other Options
When you Share Create Video File is the option “Sane as First Video” available, if yes then use this option to render your project using the original.

Using Make Movie Manager Add function will allow you to copy the original properties to a new template.

[alexleominster]

Trevor,
Thanks thats very informative. I didn't know if it was frame based original that you could save as upper first and it wouldn't affect outcome. The movie manager function is new to me and could save me a lot of hassle.
By the way, does the new vs 5 have more or different saving options (I'm on vs 3 ). I think I saw vs 5 was on the way though....
I think I will select a very short clip that shows movement and save a few versions. See which looks best. I hate the idea of getting a snazzy camcorder then putting footage through a sausage machine
Its not relevant but I couldn't get my head round what went on when three software was saving 30 frames a second from 50 p footage so picking 25 would make sense..
Appreciate the pointers
Al

[Trevor Andrew]

Interlaced or Progressive


Going back a while, now I’m showing my age, most video was destined for the DVD, TV viewing,
TV uses interlaces video.
Video for the internet probably WMV would use progressive (Frame Based)

In the UK we use the Pal standard using 25 fames interlaced. To create the interlacing the frame is practically split in two, this creates 50 halves, a bit like two big combs per frame, splice them together to get the full frame. They were identified as A and B frames soon to be known as “upper and lower”
One half is slightly in advance of the other, so imagine getting this order the wrong way round.
Unfortunately just to confuse things Upper may be first, but then Lower may be first.
If you understand that then your doing well……..
If you reverse the order you may see artefacts, jagged edges to the lines within the video.

In the old days we had both Analogue and Digital video, DV-Avi being the main source of Digital, this always used Lower Field First. (B--I think?)
Analogue generally used Upper Field (A) TV Tuner, VHS, Analogue camcorder etc

Now introduce High Definition, I would have thought digital and Lower Field, well no High Definition uses Upper Field.
To increase the quality of HD video, camera manufactures have introduced progressive at 50p full frames, no interlacing, frame based. Now we have twice the number of frames and with 1920 x 1080 frame size produce stunning quality, well that’s what we hope for………

And this is the catch, the “video industries standards” do not support 1980 x 1080 x 50p
View some frame rates and sizes here:-

http://www.videohelp.com/hd

Hope this hasn’t confused the issue………
And if I have it wrong I am sure I will be corrected

As for X5, don’t hold your breath, X4 has just been released so I doubt if there is a newer version in the pipeline ………….

[Ken Berry]

Trevor -- it can definitely be done. See image below (which I must remember to include if I repeat this information in future...):