Widescreen Video File Refuses To Playback in 16:9

[rozel]

Hi

I have used on and off MovieFactory for a number of years and have been well pleased. It's simple to use and doesn't require a degree in software use to make effective DVD's playable in all DVD players.

I shoot my footage with a Panasonic NV-MX300 3 CCD camcorder, which although a few years old now, can hold it's own with lower end so called HD Camcorders

My method of creating a DVD has been to capture the footage using a third-party Video editor and then importing it's export into Movie Factory and then work from there.

I have recently upgraded my version of MovieFactory 6 Plus to VideoStudio Pro X4 as this seems to better support the creation of HD BluRay discs. No I don't have the Power Pack Plug-in with my version of MovieFactory but thought that upgrading would better suit my needs.

I have created, succesfully a 35Gb .AVI file using my third-party NLE and it's properties are as follows: -

Stream 0

Type: Video
Codec: DV Video (dvsd)
Resolution: 720x576
Frame rate: 25

Stream 1

Type: Audio
Codec: PCM S16 LE (araw)
Channels: Stereo
Sample rate: 48000 Hz
Bits per sample: 16

My original DV footgae was roughly this too. It was shot in Widescreen although the sound was recorded in 32000 Hz stereo.

When I import the video into either MF 6 or VS Pro 4 the playback is in a squashed 4:3 aspect Ratio and no matter how I alter the preferences or Project Settings, before or after importing the .AVI file, it refuses to play back in widescreen. I have read tons of stuff on these forums but nothing can explain this. When the expoted file plays in VLC Player or Windows Media Player, it plays back correctly.

There seems something wrong here as I have not previously experienced this problem.

Anyone please?

roz

[Ron P.]

Welcome to the forums,

In VS X4, click on the Settings menu, and you should see Widescreen 16:9. If there is not a checkmark beside it, click on the menu option to set the Project Properties to 16:9 ratio. Also in the Preferences settings you can set the option Show Message when inserting first video clip to timeline, then VS will prompt you, asking if you want to change the Project Settings to match that of your video clip.

Out of curiosity, right-click on your video clip, on the timeline or library in VS X4, select properties, and post them please. I'm thinking that your video clip is not really 16:9. If it is it will show that in it's properties.

[rozel]

Thanks for your response, much appreciated.

I have already done exactly as you have said and have tried altering the Project Settings. I have already said nothing I do seems to alter the playback.

Here is a copy of the properties box from the timeline which seem to be the same as those already posted: -

Properties.jpg (27.9 KiB) Viewed 4396 times

Hope this helps some more

roz

[Ron P.]

Have a look at this article by Trevor Andrew. It might shed some light on things.

http://lata.me.uk/video_studio/16_9/16_9or4_3.htm

[rozel]

Thank you sooooo much for that.

I am totally confused about this problem but after reading the article, which is similar to another one I read for MF 6, I eventually managed to find the Attributes Tab and then the Distort Option. The article doesn't tell you how to find the Options Panel, let alone the Atrributes Tab but once found this is quite user friendly isn't it?

All I have done so far is to drag my Preview Window to the edges of the displayed grid and viola! It plays back as intended. I have some questions though please: -

1. Is it as simple as that? I mean I have the Project paused on the opening frame and resized it using the Distort Option. Will my project stay like that throughout and will new clips/slideshows also be in Widescreen ? Or do I need to do this for each clip and additional media etc that I subsequently import to my Project?

2. Does saving my project remember these settings?

3. The "imported" sound is basic stereo - most of my "extras" will be in 5.1 Dolby Digital 5.1 surround. I have noticed that there is an option in Settings to Enable 5.1 Surround, but when I select this, sometimes playing back my project results in no sound. I rewind back to the beginning and try again and it returns! I seem to have to make sure that the setting is "Enabled" constantly - is this a bug?

4. I want to eventually export to a BluRay Disc - initially a BD-RE 25Gb disc, but ultimately, when I have made sure it will play back in third-party players, I will burn to a standard BD-25. I want to do this to take advantage of these disc's larger size. In the past with these projects I have had to limit the overall size of them to 8.5Gb which deteriorates the video's quality somewhat. I do not want to try to make a silk purse from a sow's ear - I have already tried using another NLE to export my original footage in 1440x1080 and it made a complete mess of it. No I want to retain the existing aspect ratio as adjusted, using the "Distort Option" but to maximise the quality of the final output which will easily fit on one of these discs but will be greater than a standard sized DVD-9. I hope I am making myself clear. The video file I am using now is almost 35 Gb's in size. I will be including within my Project a number of "quality" Slide Shows made up of numerous Still Images of decent quality - over 5Mb's each - with lossless background soundtracks in surround sound with numerous Chapter Points and Menus etc. These "extras" will increase the overall size of the output further. Can you please descibe how to do this within VideoStudio please? As well as confirming that this will be possible, I need to know for example if, like MF 6, there will be a "slider" to control the overall size of the output, after of course, selecting the correct size of disc first. Hope I have made sense Basically I want a DVD on a BD disc but haven't done this before or know if it will be possible.

5. Finally though as regards using the "Distort Option", I think that this should not be necessary - in my case I have never ever used my Camcorder to shoot in 4:3 so I am not sure the explanation in the article is a valid one. I think it is a bug in this software and MF 6. I have used MF before as well as DVD Workshop, although not version 6 and had no problems. The 35 Gb file I am using for my project plays fine in my third-party NLE (Adobe Premiere CS5 btw), VLC Player and Windows Media Player. I thought that by posting it's properties as you asked, would enable you to confirm that this should playback in Widescreen as it was shot, without the need to use the "Distort Option". I am worried that by using this option, it will produce inferior output - some reassurance would be appreciated.

Thank you for bearing with me - I am now at the critical stage of Authoring my project - I have selected VideoStudio for this - presumably it works like MoviFactory/DVD Workshop and I will be able to achieve my aims? Just need a thumbs up before starting a lot of authoring work.

Hope to hear some more shortly.

roz

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Roz

I don’t really understand your workflow, and don’t see the reason to convert the video file to Uncompressed Avi.

Your camera produces DV Avi which should be imported to the PC via Firwewire selecting DV as the capture format.
This literally transfers the data (DV.Avi ) without re-coding at 13 Gb per hour.
What you have in the camera is what you get DV-Avi.

I would suspect that any problems you are experiencing are derived from the capture process you are using.

Once you have the original footage on the PC you can edit the project then render to DVD quality, or maybe HD quality for your chosen output.
But defiantly no reason to convert to ”uncompressed” Avi.

Although you say you “do not want to try to make a silk purse from a sow's ear” but that seems as though that’s what’s happening.

I don’t know what quality you are seeing immediately after capture, but would be very surprised if its an improvement on the original DV.Avi video.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

The widescreen guide that Ron provided was the last part of the full guide. explaining an aspect problem that may exist with DV.Avi capture.

As you can see it was written using VS 10, the later versions do hide the "options" panel, unfortunately......

[rozel]

Hi Trevor, Thank you for getting involved.

I am struggling here for another reason but still related to the same problem, which is the subject of this thread.

Let me explain fully so you can understand more: -

I captured my footage using Adobe Premiere CS5 - it was shot in Widescreen as has already been stated. I used 3 DV tapes throughout my shooting (my son's wedding) and therefore captured 3 clips. These three clips were then transfered to the timeline in Premiere where I edited them somewhat and in particular increased the sound in about 12 places, relative to to the overall sound level, simply because I forgot to "zoom" my camera's mic when I should have. I was extremely succesful in doing this because I have a lot of knowledge using Premiere for editing purposes. My 3 tapes cumulatively were about 35Gb's. I then "exported the timeline and used no compression and came out with a Microsoft DV .AVI file roughly the same size, but edited as I want it. I spent hours editing and therefore I require this exported file to be the starting point for Authoring.

I think the problem is this -

When filming with a SD camera on tape in widescreen means that the camera films in 4:3 and places the footage stretched vertical on tape, this is called anomorphic widescreen. Premiere will automaticly see your footage as widescreen, if not you can set that straight in the Interprete Footage in the Project Window. Some players outside Premiere do not see the widescreen 'flag' so one has to set the Pixel Aspect Ratio by hand.

Ok that is what Premiere says about all this.

Anyhow I played about with VideoStudio Pro X4 yesterday but I regret I do not believe it was the right upgrade to my MovieFactory 6 Plus software in that it doesn't seem to have the quick and easy methods to create "slideshows", menus and all. Please correct me if I have this wrong but I believe I should have upgraded to MovieFactory 7 as my friend has lent me his copy and this seems to be the what I want. I do not want to embark on another lengthy learning curve, learning all about the features of another NLE or Authoring package - my 35Gb .AVI file is where I want to start authoring now.

So having imported the file into MovieFactory 7 again I get it playing back in 4:3 but as hope there isn't a "Distort Option" to revert it to playback in 16:9.

So I am back to the same problem. In fact I have two problems: -

1. Getting the timeline to playback in 16:9.........

a. My Opening Screen after adding the >AVI file: -

However using the Multi-trim Video in Advanced Editing I can select the start and end of the clip by pressing F3 and F4, which brings the selection (ie; all of it in this case) to the bottom of the screen where it plays back perfectly as can be see here: -

But where do I go from here? When I press ok, I revert back to the first screen where it's still in 4:3 and exporting just a small part of the clip and then importing it back also results in 4:3 playback.

I am toally confused about how Corel Products are interpreting my footgage these days - I haven't experienced this before. As I have said my starting point is my existing 35 Gb .AVI file - this plays perfectly in Premiere, VLC Player and Windows Media Player. However importing it into one of Corel's Products seems hopeless, bar VideoStudio Pro X4, where you have to tweak the Distort Option. But this program doesn't seem to offer what I want.

Maybe I will have to export from VideoStudio's timeline then import the resul into MF 7 - would that do the trick anyone?

2. As I have already indicated, I want to create a disc which will take my edited footage without any deterioration in quality and add to it further small mvie clips and a few slideshows. MovieFactory does this seamlessly as I have done it before - VS doesn't, I do not think. I want to end up with a disc, probably larger than 8.5Gb but less than 25Gb so would like to know how to author to take advantage of the actual size afforded by BD 25's. This is the secondary peoblem though and not quite as important as my main problem above at this point in time.

Thank you in anticipation of some more help with this matter - I cannot believe that I am the first with this problem

roz

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

Thanks for the info, you had mentioned about uncompressed Avi which threw me a little.
So you have approximately three one hour Mini DV tapes, these were imported to your pc using fire-wire which created three Dv-Avi files at 13 Gb per hour.
Is this correct?

It is important that you have used firewire and used DV as the capture format.
This is transferred without re-coding, Any other method will re-code the video during transfer the resultant file which will depend on you setting the correct properties.

As you are aware standard video uses Non Square Pixel Rendering (anamorphic) to reshape the frame to 4:3 and 16:9.

Ok Using Video Studio X4

1 / Start a new project

2 / Go to Settings – Preferences-Tick Show Messages when inserting first clip to timeline.

3 / right click timeline and select “insert video”—browse and choose your Avi file.
A window should open, choose Details—copy and paste the right hand panel to this forum.

4 / Selecting Yes will close the window and set your project properties to match the video file.

How does it look in the timeline?
As you are having aspect problems, please change the background colour from Black. (Settings Preferences)
This will identify the actual frame, however the video should fill the frame and you should not see any coloured background. If you do then your video is not displayed as 16:9

Any problems there??????????????

[rozel]

Thanks again Trevor.

Here are the details you requested: -

Details.jpg (27.99 KiB) Viewed 4375 times

Trevor I always use firewire when I capture and of course I select DV. I use Premiere and it is probably the best there is on the market. I have used many versions and currently use Premiere CS5. Yes I have 3 clips from three DV-Tapes 2 full and one just over half full - total time 2 hours and 36 minutes. As stated already these three clips were imported to Premiere where I edited them - see earlier post - and then subsequently "exported" them to a single 35 GB .AVI file. It is this .AVI file that I am having problems with. OK you may be able to see more of the problem with these settings in the screen shot above but I have already told you that it displays in 4:3 format in the main window, until I invoke the Distort Option in the attributes tab - again see earlier posts.

But this aint going to fix anything as I am now wanting to use MovieFactory Pro 7 - simply because VS doesn't give me the options for easy creation of my project - it just seems a fancy Video Editor which I don't need now - I seem to have upgraded my MF6 to the wrong product

What I want to do is import my file into MF7 Pro and go from there. This program is not seeing the flag for widescreen - why? - I don't know, as I have never had these problems before. There is no Distort Option in either MF6 or MF7 so I am completely stuck. As described in my last post, the Multi-trim screen sees the video correctly so why not the main screen and the resultant export? It's a real shame because MF7 seems to be able to do what I want but not seeing SD footage shot in widescreen seems to me to be a very basic problem indeed which seems to be the case with all the Corel Products I am using right now.

Unless I am missing something.

BTW I'm not messing about with background colours, I can see perfectly well that the clip is in 4:3 format whereas it should be displayed in 16:9 format.

roz

[skier-hughes]

It's the way you are exporting from Premiere that looks like it is causing the problems. I suspect the flag being introduced in your movie by Premiere just cannot be recognised by VS.
You have a frame based uncompressed file.
You want to export out as dv.avi from premiere, which will give you the same file type as you start with.

What I don't understand is why after spending £600 or more pounds on CS5 you wish to edit and create your dvds with a £50 programme?????

Still while we are in VS, After exporting from Premeire as dv.avi. you need to change your project settings to be dv.avi not mpeg.
This will retain ease of editing and quality until you make your dvd when you change to mpeg.

Using frame based as you have on a std tv will look bad, using frame based 720x576 and enlarging to 1440x1080 and showing on a tv will look poor.

[rozel]

Hi Graham

Yes - I have already said: -

"When filming with a SD camera on tape in widescreen means that the camera films in 4:3 and places the footage stretched vertical on tape, this is called anomorphic widescreen. Premiere will automaticly see this footage as widescreen, if not it can set that straight in the Interprete Footage in the Project Window.

Some players outside Premiere do not see the widescreen 'flag' so one has to set the Pixel Aspect Ratio by hand."

I use Premiere because it's the best NLE there is, but like VS it's an NLE - not a full Authoring Program. If I were going to use Adobe, then I would use "Encore" but that is a massive learning curve and one which I cannot achieve at this point in time I have used DVD Workshop extensively followed by MovieFactory 6 and thought wrongly that VideoStudio Pro X4 was the next automatic upgrade. I am going to stick with MovieFactory Pro 7 if at all possible, even if this means exporting from Premiere again in order for it to recognise the video in Widescreen. What I can't understand is why in "Multi-trim" MF6 and MF7 both see the clip correctly whereas in the main playback window and again if you export it, it doesn't. That confuses me.

Ok after reading the details of my first export from Premiere, it seems I need to have another look at my export settings in Premiere. I will and see what happens.

Can someone though please tell me how I should ultimately export from MF7? I mean assuming that I can get the footage to look right in 16:9 format, how would I create a BD-25 - ie; what settings should I use - or am I in the wrong forum now, given that this concentrates on VS ?

Cheers

roz

[skier-hughes]

I stopped using premiere a few years ago, but my understanding that premiere shipped with encore these days, and encore was a full authoring app.
I've used encore on it's own a few years ago as well.

For quality I'd learn how to use encore and put my £50 into some tutorial dvds.

Just checked Adobe's site and yes, encore ships with premiere.
You can use the same timeline to output to both sd and hd discs, so you don't have to worry about rendering to an mpeg2 or an H264 or whatever HD file, you just tell it what to do and it does it. In the time taken to render out your two different file types you could watch soem tutorial videos on YouTube to learn Encore. Seams such a waste of £600 not to use it.
Plus Adobes encoding ewngine is superior to Corel's, aprt of what youa re apying your money for, so will end in a better result.

Anyway, back to what to do with MF7.

Output from premiere as a dv.avi file.
Import into MF7, as this is a standard file I'd expect it will recognise the widescreen flags and work ok.

If it doesn't, then I'd ditch premiere altogether, recapture your files using VS, as dv.avi again, edit in VS, you can do your sound editing here just the same, and then export to MF7. As you continue to use corel products through the process you won't have any interchangability problems that you currently have.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

At least you have confirmed that your video file is uncompressed, something that I was unsure of.
As an uncompressed video there will be NO aspect ratio as such, no anamorphic affect to the video.
It will display as 720 x 576, this is neither 4:3 or 16:9

Yes you can tell your media players to resize the video effectively playing as a 16:9 shape, but that does not change the properties of the video.

The original video/project used in premiere needs rendering to DV-Avi as its output file, this will produce a video similar to these settings:-

Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 16:9, 25 fps
Lower Field First
DV Video Encoder -- type 1
PCM, 48.000 kHz, 16 Bit, Stereo

I agree with Graham when he says “Output from premiere as a dv.avi file”.

[rozel]

Thanks Graham and Trevor for sticking by me - by way of assistance to you to nail this problem, this is a screen shot of my "export window from within Premiere: -

Does this identify where I may be going wrong ?

roz