Stuttering/Jumping Video during final playback/rendering

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Stuttering/Jumping Video during final playback/rendering

Post by route66teacher »

Hi,

I'm using the trial version of CVS X4 and have been impressed so far, but have come into a problem that I have seen others post here, but it's not 100% identical to my problem. I hope you can help!

I'm able to view each clip individually without any playback problem upon capture. However, once I drop a clip into the timeline, the clip experiences a very slight but noticeable bit of stuttering/jumping/hiccuping every so many seconds during playback on the timeline. I was hoping that this might have just been occurring in preview mode, but after creating a video file, the problem still exists. This footage was captured using a Flip camera.

I've posted a 1 minute sample on Youtube at http://youtu.be/pbwD6996AKk You'll notice while viewing an opening pan of the Welcome sign and footage of the columns the issue I'm inquiring about. I find it very strange that this especially noticeable when a scene is being panned.

I'm also including clip properties for any useful information that you might have.

Thank you in advance.

Anthony
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Screen Shot CVS Jumping.jpg
Screen Shot CVS Jumping.jpg (39.95 KiB) Viewed 7167 times
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Re: Stuttering/Jumping Video during final playback/rendering

Post by mitchell65 »

Hi Anthony and a warm welcome to the Forum.
I don't want to start off being "harsh" but I did find your You Tube sample a little difficult to watch. I'm afraid that it was very jerky and the panning and zooming were much too fast. It was difficult to discern what was the camera shaking and what was the actual problem. If you could possibly do another short film with the camcorder supported on a tripod or if not available resting on a wall or similar with no panning or zooming we could better help you. I should though wait for others here on the Forum whose eyes may be sharper that mine to see what they have to offer!
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Re: Stuttering/Jumping Video during final playback/rendering

Post by Ron P. »

Did you render your video using the same frame rate? VS's editing phase does not support the 50/60fps rates, however you can render video files at those various frame rates.

I watched and also downloaded your video from YouTube, using the highest possible quality, which gave me a MPEG-4 file, with the following properties:
vsx4_jumpyvideo.png
vsx4_jumpyvideo.png (7.39 KiB) Viewed 7158 times
Notice the standard NTSC frame rate of 29.97, the Frame size is also quite different than that of the properties you produced. This could be just YouTube's conversion or if you did upscale, it could be contributing to the jumpiness. I also noticed a lot of quick movement, which is not good with high-def video. You should keep the camera movements to a bare minimum.
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Re: Stuttering/Jumping Video during final playback/rendering

Post by route66teacher »

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I've included an updated sample in order to try and solve the problem...

It's obvious, that the first 30 seconds of a stationary shot does not show any signs of jumping/flickering/stuttering. However, in the followings scenes, with the panning of the sky and trees.. the jumping/flickering/stuttering becomes obvious.

I'm also including a screen shot of the properties for both the jittering clip (sky pan) and the steady clip (Route 66). I see that both clips seem to have a different frame rate per second... 59.9 for the one that doesn't jump and 30 frames per second for the pan that stutters. It has me wondering how and why the difference occurs, and is this something I need to adjust or change manually to correct the situation.

I'm open to all suggestions.

Thank you.
Anthony

The Youtube link is at http://youtu.be/_182bSRHSd0

Frame properties of clip with panning/stuttering also included.
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Clip Properties Route 66.PNG
Clip Properties Route 66.PNG (9.81 KiB) Viewed 7152 times
clip properties sky pan.PNG
clip properties sky pan.PNG (10.44 KiB) Viewed 7152 times
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Re: Stuttering/Jumping Video during final playback/rendering

Post by mitchell65 »

Are both of these screenshots of properties of the clips as they came from the camcorder? It looks as if they have been re rendered as I thought your camcorder recorded to HD!
I have to say I still think your panning is way too fast. If you slowed it by a factor of 8 I think that would make a huge difference. Without being too critical if you just look at a few minutes of a commercial film you will see how little panning goes on.
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Re: Stuttering/Jumping Video during final playback/rendering

Post by Black Lab »

It's obvious, that the first 30 seconds of a stationary shot does not show any signs of jumping/flickering/stuttering. However, in the followings scenes, with the panning of the sky and trees.. the jumping/flickering/stuttering becomes obvious.
The stuttering is only obvious because the image changes when the camera moves. Since the stuttering happens at regular intervals my bet is it is still doing it on the static shot, but you just can't see it because the frames never change.

I think a better test would be to keep the camera still and record something moving across the screen, such as a person walking down the street. That would rule out a panning problem. Again, because of the regular intervals of the pulsing I think it has to do with the frame rate.
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Re: Stuttering/Jumping Video during final playback/rendering

Post by route66teacher »

Wow, what a great source of knowledge here on these boards! This is especially appreciated by a newbie like myself. Thank you to all! Can you give me some direction as to whether or not I need to manually change the settings/frame rate, either on the Flip camera and/or the Corel Video Studio program itself? If so, what frame rate is most optimal for use with Video Studio? I didn't have any stuttering/jumping issues when using mini DV tape from another camera, so I'm convinced it has to do with the device used to capture the footage.

Thank you.

Anthony
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Re: Stuttering/Jumping Video during final playback/rendering

Post by mitchell65 »

so I'm convinced it has to do with the device used to capture the footage.
How are you capturing the footage then. I thought when i looked at your camcorder specs that it recorded to a medium that you could just transfer the files as is from the cam to the PC hard drive?
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Re: Stuttering/Jumping Video during final playback/rendering

Post by route66teacher »

Hi John,

When I capture the footage I'm using either a Sony DV camcorder or a Toshiba Flip camera. For the Sony camera, I simply attach a firewire cable from the camera to the computer and load it. No problem. For the flip camera, I insert the memory "card" directly into the computer. In other words, I'm simply transferring footage from the camera to the computer, "as is."

The problem only exists with footage shot with the flip camera. Do you think there might be settings that need to be adjusted for using a HD flip camera instead of mini-DV footage? When you look at the clip properties, are the frames per second in sync with Video Studio, or do you think that's where the conflict is occurring?

Thanks.

Anthony
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Re: Stuttering/Jumping Video during final playback/rendering

Post by mitchell65 »

In an earlier post I asked "Are both of these screenshots of properties of the clips as they came from the camcorder? It looks as if they have been re rendered as I thought your camcorder recorded to HD!"
Could you take a pristine clip from the memory card, import it to the Timeline in VS, right click on it and click "Properties" and post the details here? Also if you have a manual for your Flip camera can you look to find the preferred method of transferring the clips from the Camera to the PC?
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Re: Stuttering/Jumping Video during final playback/rendering

Post by Ken Berry »

The problem only exists with footage shot with the flip camera.
That statement, I think, just about sums up the situation. If the initial screenshot you posted is correct, then the Flip films in true progressive mode i.e. 59.94 full frames per second for NTSC. The problem is that VS -- and, I imagine, quite a few other editing programs -- cannot deal properly with that frame rate if you are talking about putting it on a DVD... Depending on what output you have selected, VS will treat such video as interleaved, rather than progressive, and in effect throw away every second frame to make it conform to the international DVD standard of 29.97 fps. That is likely to appear as stuttering, the way you describe it in those parts of your project where you have Flip footage.

VS can produce HD footage which uses true progressive mode, but only in 1280 x 720p frame size. You select it by going to Share > Create Video File > Custom, and then selecting "MPEG Transport Stream Files" as the output format, and adjusting things in the General and Compression tab of Options for that. But I am still not sure that mixing it with DV footage would avoid the problem since if you set VS to produce full progressive 1280 x 720 at 59.94 fps, then in effect it would have to convert the interleaved DV to full frames. That might introduce other problems when viewing.

VS can in fact produce a video which is full 1920 x 1080 in frame size, and at 59.94 fps. To do so, you select Share > Create Video File > Custom, and select AVI as the output format. Then in the Options button, you select one of the AVI codecs on the Compression tab and adjust its properties. On my set-up, this includes DivX/XVid, Microsoft Video 1 and a number of Matrox codecs I have installed for another program.

You can then play such a video back on your computer or arguably even directly on a Blu-Ray player connected to your HDTV, provided the player is rated to detect and play such video on, say, a USB stick drive or external hard drive connected to the player. But you won't be able to burn such files to DVD, Blu-Ray or AVCHD discs since the container format (AVI) does not comply with the international standards for such discs, and conversion of the video will take place, thus reintroducing the problem you have at the moment.
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Re: Stuttering/Jumping Video during final playback/rendering

Post by route66teacher »

Hi John, Ken, and others....

I'm enclosing a new clip that was taken with the camera set on VGA 640 x 460/30 fps along with clip properties. I find it hard to believe that PS cannot handle footage from a flip camera, and am praying the the problem is simply a simple adjustment. I'm curious... is there anyone out there using the Toshiba Camileo S20 Flip camera? I've tried uploading other test clips using other video editing programs and directly onto Youtube, and the same results.... mild hints of stuttering/jumping video.

Thank you in advance

Anthony
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http://youtu.be/uJrEuSYCROI
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Re: Stuttering/Jumping Video during final playback/rendering

Post by Black Lab »

It's not that VS can't handle clips from a Flip camera, but that it can't handle 60/50 fps. And VS is not alone in that respect.

Now your most recent post brings up two questions. Did you shoot your example footage with the Flip camera set to 640 x 460 at 30 fps? If not, does a video shot with these properties exhibit the problem we saw in your previous example footage?
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Re: Stuttering/Jumping Video during final playback/rendering

Post by route66teacher »

Hi Jeff,

Thank you for taking the time to assist me with my problem. Yes, the tulip footage was shot with the flip set at 640 x 460 at 30 fps. Even footage set to the other resolutions, displays a similar problem. When I view the footage on the computer using the flip program that came with the camera (Arcsoft Media Impression), it looks fine without any problems. However, loading it into either VS or directly to Youtube the jumping occurs. Help!

Thank you again for your input and I look forward to any and all suggestions.

Anthony
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Re: Stuttering/Jumping Video during final playback/rendering

Post by mitchell65 »

Hi Anthony
Just to get this straight:
The clip shot at 640 x 460 at 30fps shows the problem.?
Even if you load the clip direct to You Tube WITHOUT going through Video studio the problem still occurs?
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