VS Pro X4 DV-to-MPEG Compression ?

[Wilson]

Hello,

Another Newbie joins the digital video age. I did a ton of research on Video Editing software and decided to try VS Pro X4 first due to it's ease of use (good for me) and capabilities that I can grow into. So far I would say the experience has been positive and feel I could happily settle in with VS Pro X4 for the long haul, but have just a couple of questions I would like to resolve first. They may not be issues at all, but more due to my lack of knowledge, but figured experienced users like yourselves would be able to determine that in short order.

I've split my questions into separate (3) threads so that people don't have to suffer through content they're not interested in. Here's a brief run down on where I'm at and what I'm trying to do.

I'm about half-way through my 30day trial of VS Pro X4, and starting to feel a little more comfortable with the software, but a few things are still puzzling me. Granted I've only scratched the surface of the SW capabilities so far.

I'm a complete newbie to this digital video stuff, however I'm not a complete newbie to computers. Basically I have a shoeobox of old 8mm camcorder tapes (analog) and have finally decided to take the plunge and digitize them, mainly because we never end up watching the tapes 'cause it's such a pain.

First question; A friend of mine is letting me borrow his ADVC300 converter, connected to a Firewire400 card in my PC. VS Pro X4 capture works fine, was able to capture an entire 8mm tape. It was an entire tape because that's the way it was taped, it was a music performance so the tape ran through the whole show. I was able to add a simple title and burn to a DVD disc. What should I expect for MPEG compression when burning to a DVD? I couldn't fit it all on one DVD disc, had to split it into two discs, not a big deal, just thought the mpeg conversion would have compressed it more? Maybe that's wishful thinking on my part? It's a 2 hour & 2minute video which equals a large ~8.7Gb raw DV capture file through the ADVC. I know a DVD is 4.7Gb max so obviously the 8.7Gb raw file won't fit, but is 2:1 compression/conversion expecting too much for the mpeg conversion? Maybe there's some options I should be using to compress it more?

All in all I'm pretty happy with the ADVC to digital capture functions with VSPx4 so far.

Thanks,

Dan

[Black Lab]

You are going to have to decide if you want high quality on 2 DVDs, or so-so quality on 1.

A bitrate of 8000 kbps will get you about 1 hour of high quality video on a DVD. 6000 kbps will get you about 1.5 hours. 4000 kbps about 2 hours, but it will be akin to (good) VHS quality. If you chose the default burning template for DVD, that is 8000 kbps. To change your bitrate choose the Custom option at the Share step.

Using a bitrate calculator will help you get the highest bitrate to fit on a single disc. Or you could try using something like DVD Shrink to shrink it after you have rendered it.

[Wilson]

I'm more interested in quality so the additional DVD's are not a problem, was just curious if I was missing an option somewhere. Thanks for the response.

[Black Lab]

You can always try squeezing them onto one disc. Quality is in the eye of the beholder.

[Trevor Andrew]

I'm more interested in quality so the additional DVD's are not a problem, was just curious if I was missing an option somewhere. Thanks for the response.

Hi

For full quality set the ADVC300 converter device to capture 8000kbps.
It may do 9200?????
Reduce the capture times to a max of 60 minutes.

Full quality is 60 minutes per disc.

After editing Share Create Video File-Same as First Video Clip will render the project using your original files properties. Quality should be as good as it gets.

If you want full quality then don’t compress any more.

[Ken Berry]

Trevor -- are you suggesting he use the ADVC300 to capture direct to DVD-compatible mpeg-2, instead of its 'native' DV? That is the only conclusion I can draw from your suggestion he set the incoming bitrate to high quality 8000 kbps or higher. If he were capturing in DV format, he would only need to have selected 'DV', and would not be able to set bitrates in any case.

Wilson -- from my own point of view, you are correctly capturing via the Canopus device in DV format. That gives the best quality and is the easiest format to edit, even though the captured files are very much bigger than mpeg-2.

But it is the compression factor when you go from editing to actually producing a disc which you are talking about, correct? If so, then you also need to be aware of a general debate which surrounds this when the original video is analogue (as on a VHS or analogue 8 mm tape). I personally have converted my 8 mm analogue tape collection to digital using the DV route, and have usually used the 8000 kbps bitrate in the production of my eventual DVD. This is because my individual projects were rarely more than one hour long, so with that bitrate would fit onto a single layer 4.3 GB DVD. That way at least I feel I am getting the best quality possible from analogue-sourced material.

But there are many people out there who feel there is simply no point in using anything more than about 6000 kbps for such material as they argue -- probably correctly! -- that quality of analogue material cannot be increased much if at all by using a higher bitrate than that. And as pointed out above, 6000 kbps will allow about 90 minutes of video to be burned to a single layer DVD.

But in your experiments, you need to try these various options to see for yourself.

[skier-hughes]

I was wondering how he captured, as a 2 hr 2minute dv file would be about 25gb, compressing this to a high quality mpeg2 file would be about 8gb as we found.

[Wilson]

Thanks for the replies gents, I'm really learning as I'm going here so I'll try to address your replies, but I think you're both right. When I did some test captures from the ADVC I captured them as DV (.avi) files, but for some reason I can't remember when I captured the 2hour tape I set it to DVD (.mpeg) format. I haven't changed anything on the ADVC, just plugged it in. I'll have to read up on how to change the bit rate, nothing in the software that came with it that I can see.

File properties of the two file types below;

Short Test Capture from ADVC300 in DV .avi format from the same tape;
File Size; 224,141 KB
Frame Rate: 29.970 frames/sec
Duration 63.797 seconds
Data rate: 3512.11 kbps

Video
Compression DV Video Encoder - type 1
Attributes; 24 bits, 720 x 480, 4:3
Total frames: 1912 frames



Full 2+hour capture, captured as DVD mode, .mpg
File Size: 8,722,136 KB
Duration 7372.439 seconds

Video
Video Type: MPEG-2 Video, Lower Field First
Toal Frames: 220,952
Attributes 24bits, 720 x 480, 4:3
Frame rate: 29.970 frames/sec
Data rate: Variable bit rate (Max 9000kbps)


From what I've read capturing in .avi format and editing in that format is best, then burning/converting to .mpg once I'm done with the edits as you suggest due to the way DV is a frame by frame capture file vs mpeg being a frame, differences, diff, diff etc type capture file, that all sounds logical to me. All my subsequent tapes are much much shorter in sequence so I should be able to do that without issue, just need to verify I'm capturing at the higher bit rate.

Thanks again

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

I noticed the file size and assumed the DV was a typo for DVD as the sizes would be correct for Mpeg2 capture?
( Quote… It's a 2 hour & 2minute video which equals a large ~8.7Gb raw DV capture file through the ADVC. I know a DVD is 4.7Gb max so obviously the 8.7Gb raw file won't fit,)

Silly me
yes I totally agree capture DV, edit render to DVD.