VS X4: Fitting video project on 4.7G disc

[Heesenproductions]

If my video project is to big to fit on a 4.7G disc and X4 prompt to fit it in the burn to ISO or Video TS stage, the end result have 1 or more video clips converted to heavily low quality, approximately a bit more than 3000 bit rate, but not all the video clips are converted. The end result is that some video clips have grainy scenes with some artifacts on the TV.

Since it is very time consuming to batch convert all the videos of the project to a lower bit rate in order to fit it on a 4.7G disc (choosing one bit rate specification, see if all videos plus menus fit, choose another lower bit rate and start batch converting again if not...), I decided to use the 8.5G option of X4 with the original quality formerly rendered videos and finish the dvd building in that way. After that I choose DVD Shrink 3.2 to compress it on 4.7G. DVD Shrink successfully compress a 5.2G project DVD to 4.7G (actually 4.4G) with a 95% compression rate with a sharp function. The overall end result's playback quality was far more better than when using batch convert to a lower bit rate with X4. Just want to mention that X2 handled such a compress to fit request better.
The last time I've needed to go the DVD Shrink way for compressing large DVD sizes were in the days of VS 11. By mentioning VS11, that was also the time when I got several crashes with DVD authorizing. I remember I had to set VS 11 to convert all DVD compliant MPEG again to have a smooth playback without Video/Audio multiplexing problems.

For anyone asking, yes I always use formerly rendered MPEG2 files. I never use the edited project to author a DVD.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

You should only have to convert the project once to achieve the correct file size.
This will create a compliant video file that when burned to DVD will not be rendered again.

The video and audio bit rates controls the size of the rendered file.

If you are working with Mpeg2 video as your source then the original properties should be used as the conversion settings, you can however reduce the bit rate to reflect the length of the projects. But the original properties are all important.
Can you provide details of these?

If you are intending to fit more than one project/video to a disc then the overall length should be taken into account when selecting the bit rate.
There are bit rate calculators that can help
http://dvd-hq.info/bitrate_calculator.php
is useful and gives some info.

As a guide :-
8000 kbps will allow for 60 minutes of video per disc
6000 kbps will allow for 90 minutes of video per disc
4000 kbps will allow for 60 minutes of video per disc

Example
4 projects 15 minutes, 20 minutes, 35 minutes, 17 minutes
Total time is 87 minutes
Using a bit rate of 6000kbps will produce an overall size of 4 Gb.
The menu structure does take up some space so aiming for 4 Gb will allow for the menu creation.

So two questions
1 / what are the original video properties?
2 / how long is the overall length of the videos / projects?

[Heesenproductions]

So two questions
1 / what are the original video properties?
2 / how long is the overall length of the videos / projects?

1. Original properties: MPEG2 9100VBR Upper field first, Audio Dolby Digital 5.1 448kbps 48kHz (19 videos)
2. Disc length 89min

So you would recommend 6000VBR which I used albeit the quality look wasn't as good as the 95% quality setting DVD Shrink gave me?

[skier-hughes]

If dvd shrink gives you better quality then use that. A carpenter doesn't try to cut all types of wood with only one saw, a video editor shouldn't use just one programme.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

I am assuming that your original videos are added to a Video Studio Project for editing.
After editing you have to render the project to create a video file.
What properties are you using to do this?

1 / For an 89 minute project you would have to use 6500 kbps variable. (6000 constant) all other properties as the video file.
Rendering will give a compliant video file.
Your audio shows as 5.1 surround sound, do you intend to keep this option or are you converting to 2 channel?

2 / However you may use “Same as First Video” which will render using the original properties, the total size would be over 4.3 Gb, but then use DVD Shrink to fit to disc.

Batch Convert
Batch convert may be useful as you have 19 projects. These can be batched converted (I mean the VSP files) using the appropriate properties, same as video properties or your own template. Depending on which route you take to burn the disc.

The problem with batch convert, it’s a custom option, so you have to be sure you have set the correct properties? It will however reflect the project properties which does help somewhat.

[Black Lab]

If dvd shrink gives you better quality then use that. A carpenter doesn't try to cut all types of wood with only one saw, a video editor shouldn't use just one programme.

[Heesenproductions]

I am assuming that your original videos are added to a Video Studio Project for editing.
After editing you have to render the project to create a video file.
What properties are you using to do this?

I'm using same properties as the project. Okay, project settings is the same as the original properties of the video with 100% speed setting I didn't compressed with lower VBR from start since I hoped that the edited version of the videos will fit on one disc. I don't know before the time what the size will be, because I edit per scene. e.g. sing item, next dance item, etc. After editing the whole event in different scenes, I use the end result videos to build the dvd.

1 / For an 89 minute project you would have to use 6500 kbps variable. (6000 constant) all other properties as the video file.
Rendering will give a compliant video file.
Your audio shows as 5.1 surround sound, do you intend to keep this option or are you converting to 2 channel?

I keep my 5.1 surround setting.

The problem with batch convert, it’s a custom option, so you have to be sure you have set the correct properties? It will however reflect the project properties which does help somewhat.

With batch convert, I set everything the same as the video properties, only lower the VBR.

[Black Lab]

I don't know before the time what the size will be, because I edit per scene. e.g. sing item, next dance item, etc. After editing the whole event in different scenes, I use the end result videos to build the dvd.

But you do know the size, in time. With that information you can easily figure the bitrate you need using a bitrate calculator.

[Trevor Andrew]

I don't know before the time what the size will be, because I edit per scene. e.g. sing item, next dance item, etc. After editing the whole event in different scenes, I use the end result videos to build the dvd.

Hi

Are you saying you render all projects, then find the video files above 4.3 Gb??????????

If you edit 19 projects, you will know the total duration in minutes.
You can then set the render/convert bit rate in the batch convert to render the projects.
The total size being aprox 4 gb
You only have to create the videos once, they should fit to disc without further render.

[Heesenproductions]

Trevor
Just for the interest:
Total file size of the ISO rendered by VS X4 in 6000vbr: 3.8GB with some scenes looking a bit grainy (89min video in total plus menus)
Total file size of the ISO rendered by VS X4 in 8000vbr: 4.7GB, all scenes good quality (89min video in total plus menus)
Total file size of the ISO converted by DVD Shrink also 8000VBR with 95,2% quality setting: 4.5GB, all scenes good quality (89min video in total plus menus)

All three ISO's playback from DVD-R playing smooth. Best quality compression & look by DVD Shrink. It's obvious that DVD Shrink do a better job. Maybe I can experiment with 8000VBR quality setting 95.2 with X4 if I have the time. The compression with DVD Shrink took 3min's while the batch convert took almost a hour for all 19 videos of the project. I could try using 8000VBR with 95.2 when rendering my video project to MPEG2 in future.

[Ken Berry]

The reduce-to-fit option in VS was never more than a gimmick, if it worked at all. At best, it worked usually only when the project size was only a little over the 4.3 GB limit. But as has been said above, your first step should be to work out how long the duration of your combined projects is going to be, and apply an appropriate bitrate at that stage.

But sure, if you don't want to do it that way, then certainly use DVD Shrink or Nero Recode -- they were both developed by the same German guy (who now works for Nero). It will *always* do a better job at the compression than the gimmick used in VS. That is its specialised function...

[Heesenproductions]

Just redone my Disc 1 project, this time I set X4 to go the 8.5G way with this one too, except for replacing all the 8000VBR clips with the original edited one's of 9100VBR. X4 reported that it will not fit on 4.7G with 4 main menus and 3 chapter menus. Total play of the project 74min. Therefor I choose the 8.5G option. The resulted ISO was 4.5G according to X4. Windows explorer agree with the size. But before compressing it with DVD Shrink, I took a chance and start the image writer of Alcohol120%. Alcohol accepted the file as 4.37G and successfully write it to disc. The 8000VBR version of the ISO was 3.9G in X4. So now I had written 2 discs of my video project successfully (Disc 1 & 2) containing 22 video clips of 9100VBR on Disc 1 and 21 video of 8000VBR on Disc 2. Both ISO sizes reported as 4.5G in windows explorer, but accepted as 4.37 by DVD Shrink as well as Alcohol. Isn't there a discrepancy in the reported sizes? Why did X4 reject the 9100VBR project (Disc1) at it's full quality as a valid 4.3GB size?
I don't want to compress high quality video if it isn't necessary.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

I have been considering your approach / workflow in creating your discs.
Whether you prefer DVD Shink or use Video Studio I think we can improve quality.
Having said that if your movies are over 60 minutes then you have to expect some reduction in quality. So I would urge you to keep them short.

It is not often that I suggest rendering in the burner module but I think you should give it a go.

You can create a project for burning your movies.
Use this project to burn using Video Studio and create an ISO for DVD Shrink.

First complete your editing of the individual projects, in the past you have used up to 19 to add to a single disc, they are saved as VSP. (Video Studio Project)
No need to render these to a video file.

Ok

1 / Start a New Project
2 / Make sure the Project Properties match your video files properties, I believed you used 9200kbps
3 / Share Create Disc-DVD
4 / Add VSP, add your project files.
5 / select the DVD 8.5 Gb disc option
6 / Create your menu
7 / Now create an Iso file, this will be used later in DVD Shrink to burn your disc.
The quality should be good as its using the original video properties.

To burn a disc using Video Studio


5 / select DVD 4..7 Gb as the disc option.
Notice the size bar indicating Green, yellow, and red
6 / select the Project Settings “cogwheel”
7 / Deselect “Do no convert compliant MPEG files”
8 / Select Two-Pass conversion, otherwise use Constant Bit Rate
9 / Select “Change Mpeg Settings”
These should be the same as your video files properties, your project properties you set earlier.
10 / choose the “compression” tab
11 / reduce the video data rate (bit rate) from 9200 kbps
The amount you reduce depends on the total length of your projects.
6000kbps for 90 minutes as a starting point

12 / View the size bar, repeat step 11 until the yellow section has just disappeared.

Burn the disc.

After burning the second disc using DVD Shrink, compare the quality of both to decide which option you choose to use for other disc’s