X3 De-interlace/Interlace question...

[coolspud]

Hi,

A bit of history to my problem...
I have some old 8mm family films which decades ago (back in 1980) were converted to VHS.
The 8mm reels are long gone now, they got moldy, brittle and turned to dust, so I binned them around 1992.
About 6 years ago, we converted the VHS tapes to DVD - direct copy from VHS deck to DVD recorder - so the family could enjoy the tapes again, because they were getting too old. We binned the VHS tapes about 3 years ago.

So here is my conundrum:
Considering I have no longer access to the original 8mm reels, and the VHS tapes are long gone as well, during the process of copying across from VHS to DVD the 'interlace' has remained and become digitally burned into the VOB files... is this correct in my thinking?

The reason I say this is because now that I'm trying to bring these old films back to life (which were VERY dark) I can start to see the interlaced lines start to show up as I lighten them in X3.

So my curious mind is now wondering:
Is there a way I can remove those lines?
Where is the 'de-interlace filter' in X3?

Thanks for any tips or suggestions.

[Clevo]

Just so I am sure of what you are referring to...

The interlace lines should be thin horizontal lines covering the entire screen causing the edges of subjects on the video screen to be jaggered. This is what happens when you create a new video file from the original without paying attention to the field order.

When VHS is recorded poorly you can sometimes see a ripple effect appearing from the top of the screen and it ripples downward as the video is played.

While both of these are interlacing issues the first issue I mention can be fixed by creating a new video file with the correct fiels order whilst the second issue cannot be fixed as it's now "burnt in" the DVD you are working off. This will be impossible to remove

DVD standard video must be interlaced but something you could try is to create a video file using the same codec (mpeg2) and the same frame size & frame rate but remove the interlacing by creating a frame based video. If this new video file results in successfully removing the interlace you can then make colour & brightness adjustments and create a new DVD standard (interlaced) video file.

I have to warn though that with all this converting & adjusting, I'm going to guess, that it will make the image worse in resolution as you are working on a fourth generation video file essentially mastered off a VHS.

It's a shame the original film was thrown out. A good quality film to digital video would have done wonders even with old brittle film with broken sproket holes. I had some 8mm film done a few years ago that was originally shot in 1962 and chose a shop that scanned each image individually rather than play it through a projector. The results were amazing. Film is superior to HD

[Ken Berry]

Clevo -- I have the suspicion that coolspud is not using the term "interlacing" with its usual editing meaning relating to Field Order. At best, I suspect it is something akin to your second example, and probably burnt into the video and thus not removable: frame flicker showing up from the difference in the film speed and video speed...?

But coolspud, could you please describe in more detail what the problem is and without using the word 'interlace"?

[coolspud]

That is correct... there are some ripples in the VHS rendition, and I also see edge to edge horizontal lines - albeit not very strong ones. I can just about keep the lightness/gamma short of completely showing up the interlace via X3.

So from you what you said, the ripple effect is burned in (not removable) but the edge to edge horizontal lines are. If so, these edge to edge lines are the ones I'm most concerned about - which sounds like good news.

Stupid question... is frame based video the option under Video Save Options > Frame Type: Frame Based ?
Simply rendering using that setting and making sure fps remains as is. I'll give it a shot.

You're right about the reels. Before we binned them we shopped about for someone that might be able to convert them to DVD, but at the time (1992) the price was horrendous (£10 per frame). It wasn't exactly within our price range and things were getting old. Funnily enough, some of the footage is from the early '60s. But then again, everything here in Britain is expensive and there's no realistic prices. People generally charge astronomically for very average work/quality. Anyhow...

[Ken Berry]

Well, you can only try it and see. However, I think Clevo's reference to Frame Based was to get around interlacing effects in the editing sense of the word. And those effects are caused by getting the Field Order wrong i.e. using UFF when you should be using LFF, or vice versa. But I don't think it is that which is causing your problem.

What Field Order is shown under Properties, by the way, when you right click on one of the files in the VS timeline?

[coolspud]

VOB files are Mpeg 2 Upper Field First, 29.97 fps.

[Clevo]

VOB files are Mpeg 2 Upper Field First, 29.97 fps.

That frame rate is an NTSC spec...rather than PAL.

So we'll probably need to know how the DVD's were made from the VHS.

[coolspud]

Yes that's right... it's a US DVD recorder which I bought out there as part of some bargain shopping I did... DVD recorders way back then were stupidly priced here in the UK. Can't remember what I paid in US$ anymore, but it was cheap in comparison.

Connected up via S-Video.
VHS deck to DVD recorder.

[Clevo]

OK that explains things...

You'll need to stick to NTSC for the duration of the repair process. Let us know how you go with the suggestions outlined above.

Basically...you'll need to create a frame based video to de-interlace and then re-interlace, trying not to vary too much away from the DVD NTSC specs.

Let us know how it goes

[coolspud]

Hi Clevo,
Thanks for the tips.
I think it's sorted now.
I've exported frame based 100% quality NTSC and re-imported and re-exported to PAL.
Lines seem to have gone.
Cheers.