VS X4 supported Frame Rates?

[mcspeedy380]

Ok, I've tried following these instructions and I can't get it to work.
I'm using GoPro video files:
File format: MPEG-4 File
Video type: H.264 Main Profile Video
Attributes: 24 bits, 1280 x 720, 16:9
Frame rate: 59.940 frames/sec
Data rate: 7500Kbps

If I select "Microsoft AVI files" as the Edit file format, I get the following Compression options:
DV Video Encoder -- type 1
DV Video Encoder -- type 2
MJPEG Compressor
Microsoft RLE
Microsoft Video 1
Intel IYUV codec
Cinepack Codec by Radius

Do I need a different codec?
Any suggestions which options I should select in the Project Properties and Project Options dialog boxes?

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi mcspeedy380

X4 Project Properties can only be set for Mpeg2 DVD or DV-Avi
These use standard definition frame size, for pal 720 x 576.
Its about Corel addressed this issue, but its not a problem.

You can ignore the project properties when using HD, with the exception of setting the aspect ratio to 16:9, which it is by default.

You edit your HD 1280 x 720, which is 16:9 ratio.
When editing is completed:-
Select Share Create Video File -- Depending on what you wish to create you choose a template, there are many available.

You may need to use Make Movie Templates Manager to create your own template.

Can you say what you are trying to make, video for internet, standard DVD or maybe HD avchd/bluray?
This will help in selecting a render option.

[mcspeedy380]

Thanks for your reply Trevor,
I have 60fps video (see properties above) and I would like to slow it down to 50% and have smooth slow motion at 30 fps.
I would then like to upload HD video to Vimeo (and my iPad) at 30fps in half speed slow motion.
Unfortunately whatever I try still results in VS dropping every second frame from the original footage. This results in jerky slow motion.
I want to find a set of project properties that will preserve all 60 of my frames so that when I stretch out the clip, I get 30 different frames per second and not 15 pairs of frames.
Any ideas?
I'm trialling VS X4 especially because it supposed to handle 60fps.
Cheers, M380

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

There are some concerns about VS handling 60 fps, I do not have access to video using 60 fps.
I do not think simply reducing the frame per second will slow down the video.
It will remove frames, use 30 but keep the duration, so the play time will be the same.

However there is an option to change the playback speed

Select the clip, open the Options panel choose “Speed -- Timelapse”

You can now slow or speed up the play.

Then render the video to your preferred output settings for upload to Vimeo
Try mov files:-

QuickTime Movie Files
24 bits, 1280 x 720, 15 fps
Frame-based
MPEG 4 Visual
100% Quality, 15 Key Frame Rate
None, 8.000 KHz, 16 bits, Stereo

If you are able to make a short sample of your original 60 fps available I will try a few options.

[mcspeedy380]

Hi Trevor,
the problem is not in how to process the video once it is VS X4 - I can do all that.
The problem is that as soon as the video is added to the timeline, half of the frames are dropped, never to be seen again.
Looking at the previous posts on this thread, the secret seems to be finding a set of Project Properties that will allow the video to be imported without dropping frames.
Even just importing the media files into the library drops the fps to 30.
Abiel Corel NA needs to provide more information when he flippantly states:

If you still want proof, you can check the Movie Template Manager, you can create a template that can produce 60 fps or 59.94 fps video file, which is the same for video input.

My Template Options dialog box does not have the line: "Encoder Driver:" and I don't know how to get "Ulead MPEG.Now Encoder"
None of this is making me think it would be a good idea to buy VS X4.

I can take a short 60fps clip for you to play with,but how do I get it to you?
Regards

[Ken Berry]

As I said before in this thread:

X4 can accept 1080p clips at 50/60p for editing. However, it cannot output the edited video at 1080p at 50/60p. The most it can produce is 1280 x 720p at 50/60p.

I think that in a sense you are worrying for nothing about what VS shows as the properties of your clips in either the timeline or library window i.e. 30 fps instead of 60. In the editing phase, until you finally render something new, all editing is in effect virtual. So your additional 30 fps are not gone without a trace, never to be seen again, as you think. But the only format you can output to using X4 and having 60 fps is 1280 x 720.

If that is something you want to try, then after finishing your edits, select Share > Create Video File > Custom. Then in the dialogue box which appears you select as format "MPEG transport-stream files (.m2t)". Give the new file a name, then press the Options button. In the various tabs that appear, you will see, under Compression, you can set it to produce either AVCHD or HDV/mpeg-2. On the General tab, you can see that you can select the frame rate as either 30 or 60 fps. But if you select the latter, then your ability to chose a frame size apart from the default 1280 x 720 is greyed out. You will also note under that tab that the Ulead MPEG-Now Encoder is selected as the Encoder Driver. You don't have to get it from anywhere: it is already part of the program.

But if 1280 x 720p at 60p is no good to you, then X4 is not the program for you, I'm afraid. However, I would encourage you to let your feelings be known to Corel direct so that they cannot say they were not aware of the increasing number of users with camcorders producing 1080p video and wanting to output in the same format.

[mcspeedy380]

Actually Ken, all I want out is 1280x720 @ 30fps.
I take a 3 sec 1280x720 clip at 60fps (180 frames, right?). I use the Speed/Time-lapse option to stretch that (at 50% speed) to 6sec and create a file at 1280x720 @ 30fps.
That should be 180 frames, right?
Wrong! It renders out 90 frames, each one played twice - effectively 15fps which equals jerky looking slow motion.
I've tried a few different output formats - including your m2t suggestion, but it is always the same result.
I'm not worrying for nothing because it's the rendered output that I am looking at.
It would be great if Kingston could give more information about the work flow that got him to having

the timeline to scale with 60 frame per second ticks marks

. I note that the working file is a .MOV file.
Also, how do I contact Corel directly? They don't seem interested in customer comment.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

can you e-mail the 3 second clip so i can have a play.

Email addres via quick guide link below.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

I ran a test on a 50fps video file, all I had as I am in Pal country.

1280 x 720 x 50 fps
Duration 13.78 seconds
689 frames

I rendered the original clip using 1280 x 720 x 25fps
Result plays ok
Duration 13.78 seconds
344 frames.
Video plays ok

From original video used Speed Time Lapse to 50%
Duration now 27.52 seconds
Rendered file to 1280 x 720 x 25fps
688 frames
Video plays ok.

These are the properties I am using to render the video, template created using Make Movie Templates Manager

QuickTime Movie Files
24 bits, 1280 x 720, 25 fps
Frame-based
MPEG 4 Visual
50% Quality, 24 Key Frame Rate
None, 8.000 KHz, 16 bits, Stereo

I am able to make the template to:-

QuickTime Movie Files
24 bits, 1280 x 720, 30 fps
Frame-based
MPEG 4 Visual
50% Quality, 24 Key Frame Rate
None, 8.000 KHz, 16 bits, Stereo

[mcspeedy380]

Hi Trevor,
Now have a closer look at your rendered 27.52 sec clip.
Does it have 688 connective, individual frames (like your original), or does it now have only 344 different frames with each one played twice?
Play your original 689 frame, 13sec 50 fps clip in QuickTime at half speed and compare it to the rendered 27sec 25fps clip. If I'm right and VS is just doubling up frames, then the VS output will look jerky compared to QT slow mo.

[nosnoop]

I ran a test on a 50fps video file, all I had as I am in Pal country.
From original video used Speed Time Lapse to 50%
Duration now 27.52 seconds....
Video plays ok.

Yes, video would play ok, until you inspect the movie frame by frame and notice that half of the original frames are missing.

Looks like mcspeedy380 is finding the same thing as I had with X3.

[mcspeedy380]

I was hoping the X4 upgrade would fix the problem and the posts at the beginning of the thread seem to suggest that the capability is there. Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to unlock that capability.
Maybe Kingston is hoaxing us with that JPG of the 60 frame timeline.
It feel like the answer is tantalisingly close but I just can't get to it.

[nosnoop]

I was hoping the X4 upgrade would fix the problem and the posts at the beginning of the thread seem to suggest that the capability is there. Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to unlock that capability.
Maybe Kingston is hoaxing us with that JPG of the 60 frame timeline.
It feel like the answer is tantalisingly close but I just can't get to it.

In the mean time, my work around is to use tsMuxer to transcode the 60fps video into smooth 30fps video, and then import the converted clips for editing. I wrote about this in another forum here last year. The link in that post there no long works, but it is easy to find by Google. As there is no re-rendering, the original quality is preserved and the transcoding is very fast.

Unfortunately, tsMuxer would only convert the video but not the audio. I seldom use the audio for slow mo clips anyways, so it works out fine for me.

[mcspeedy380]

Thanks nosnoop,
I did read your other post but got lost and distracted before I tracked down tsmuxer.
I guess I was looking for a one stop solution - I spend too much of my time "working around".
Cheers

I'd still like Kingston to give a full explanation of how he got the 60 frame ticks on the time line.

[Kingston]

Thanks nosnoop,
I did read your other post but got lost and distracted before I tracked down tsmuxer.
I guess I was looking for a one stop solution - I spend too much of my time "working around".
Cheers

I'd still like Kingston to give a full explanation of how he got the 60 frame ticks on the time line.

I already explained how I got the 60 frame ticks on the Feb 23 post. But I will have to say that when I tried it again, I couldn't get it into 60 tick mode until I started a new project and then for the second time I had to change the Settings > Project Properties back to the Microsoft AVI Files format I set up before I started a new project.

Let me know if you still have trouble. If I remember, I will check back, but I'm not getting notified by email when someone replies.