VS X4 supported Frame Rates?

[Shim]

With the release of VS X4, I have a question concerning frame rates;

Does corel (X4) now support import/export of 60fps (2D) video, various formats?

As this would be a fundamental requirement of purchase for me.

Thanks in advance.

[Ron P.]

We can import, np (I use a T2i at 720 60p). You can also render to AVC using 60. The issue is that the editing subsystem does not edit at 60 (or other rates)

Clear as mud??

[Ken Berry]

I am afraid I still don't have a definitive answer for that -- and not having a camcorder which films in 50/60p I can't test it myself. I asked Corel again, and got an answer which appears to say X4 can do it, but then they confused me a bit. I will give you exactly what they told me:

We can import, no problem (I use a T2i at 720 60p). You can also render to AVC using 60. The issue is that the editing subsystem does not edit at 60 (or other rates)

It's the last sentence I don't really understand...

[Ron P.]

Ken,
If I understood that last email, it's basically the preview while editing, that is not 60/50fps.

[Ken Berry]

As I said in an email to Jan, the problem for me is that it only works with 1280 x 720 p. He sent me a screen grab showing it definitely works for 1080p, but that option is greyed out on my set-up. Mind you, I don't yet have any 50/60p video to test it out on...

[Shim]

In VS X2 creating matching fps templates as wmv files is possible for pc playback/sharing.


Would be interesting to find out how users find importing/exporting (50/60fps) from various camcorders in X4.

[Kingston]

You can get the timeline to scale with 60 frame per second ticks marks by changing the Project Properties. You have to switch from MPEG to AVI and then select XVID (or find something else) for the codec. Then you can manuallly enter 59.94 or 60 fps. I tried changing to the "frame-based" option but that kept the timeline at 30 NTSC frames per second tick marks. I kept the field option at "Upper Field First", and that worked out okay to my surprise. My video is 1280x720p 59.94. I can edit the individual frames. When I export it back out using "Same as Project", MediaInfo shows the correct length and 59.94fps progressive, even though the project properties show Upper Field First (maybe XVID is only progressive?). When I put the exported video on the timeline on the overlay track, it matches perfectly with what I edited on the first track.

[teknisyan]

Hello Shim,

Like what Ken quoted from our manager it supports 60 fps or 59.94 fps video file. If you still want proof, you can check the Movie Template Manager, you can create a template that can produce 60 fps or 59.94 fps video file, which is the same for video input.

screen_076.png (38.06 KiB) Viewed 12825 times

But if you have a camera that captures video at 60fps, I would recommend that you download and try the VS X4 via corel.com/trials

[Shim]

Could you show images that X4 supports editing @ 50/60 fps in the time-line, thanks. = Ultimately supports such.

Thanks

[Ken Berry]

I continued to press Corel on this, even though I don't have a camcorder which produces 50/60p video clips. At last, I got an answer which was straight to the point. X4 can accept 1080p clips at 50/60p for editing. However, it cannot output the edited video at 1080p at 50/60p. The most it can produce is 1280 x 720p at 50/60p.

The reason for this is that it is limited to the international AVCHD standard which currently specifies that the maximum frame format for progressive scan 50/60p videos is 1280 x 720p. You can check the international standard Specifications in Wikipedia, and you will be able to confirm this: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD#1080p

Wikipedia also provides the following information about AVCHD in general and 1080p in particular: "In 2010, Panasonic introduced a new lineup of consumer AVCHD camcorders (HDC-HS700, HDC-TM700, HDC-SD700, HDC-HS600, HDC-SD600) with 1080-line 50p/60p progressive-scan mode (frame rate depending on region). While this mode is not compliant with current AVCHD specification, it uses the same compression schemes for video and audio, the same container files and the same folder structure as AVCHD-compliant recordings. Panasonic advised that not all players that support AVCHD playback could play 1080-line 50p/60p video."

In other words, the camcorder manufacturers have gotten ahead of the internationally agreed standards. And I assume Corel and other software manufacturers will have some justification in arguing that until there is some international agreement on a new standard, it will be difficult for them to adjust their software. A rather legalistic argument, I admit (but then I am a lawyer myself! ), particularly since the reality of 50/60 1080p camcorders are already with us. However it is a situation not dissimilar to the very arrival of AVCHD as a format. It was largely developed, separately, by Panasonic and Sony and each tweaked the format in specific ways, and used slightly different codecs. It was impossible for the software manufacturers to keep up, and indeed other camera makers have added their own twists to the saga. The last change to the international AVCHD standard was to raise the maximum allowable bitrate to 24 Mbps, although even there things are not fixed since the maximum allowable bitrate on an AVCHD hybrid disc is only 18 Mbps, the old standard maximum! But the good news is that the standard is regularly monitored and can apparently be changed fairly quickly. Software manufacturers will then ignore the new standard at their peril.

In the meantime, all I can suggest is that owners of 50/60p camcorders let their feelings be known to Corel direct. Just to remind you, this is a user-to-user Board with only limited Corel intervention.

[Kingston]

Shim, here is an screenshot of the timeline in 60 fps editing mode:

Timeline showing 60 fps editing

60 fps.jpg (38.44 KiB) Viewed 12811 times

[Ken Berry]

Ummm... is there anything in the photo to indicate it is in 60p mode? ... Let alone that it can actually produce 60p video ...?

[Ron P.]

Well there is a 6 and a 0 in the image..

[Kingston]

The timecode cursor is at 1 second 56 frames. The next tick mark is 1 second 57 frames, 1 second 58 frames, 1 second 59 frames, 2 minutes. No? I'm not saying you can produce anything specific, just that you have editing access to all 50/60 fps.

But what you said about not being able to produce 60p I'm in agreement with, except you can produce 1280x720p 50/60 fps in Custom settings.

[pepegota]

Now you know why I am staying with proven SD. There is too much obfuscation and too many specs. It's like a Nantucket sleigh ride. I will wait till the whale dies.