Anyone here convert AVCHD to avi before editing in VS X3?

[ptbpilot]

Hello all,

Newbie post here. I am new to Corel VS x3 and HD editing. I have a newly acquired Canon HF S21 video camera that captures footage in AVCHD. I plan on using Corel for capture and edit.

My question is for other AVCHD users. Do you use any tools to convert the files to .avi? And then edit those in VS X3 in order to aid the rendering process?

Someone refered me to Cineform Neoscene. It is a bit pricey, but here it is:
http://www.cineform.com/neoscene/

Before making a decision I'd like some feedback. Is this a good idea? Is AVCHD really a problem in VS x3? If I convert to .avi, will I be able to render to a BD DVD later on and still retain the HD image as good as that on the original AVCHD footage?

Thanks in advance!

Peter

[teknisyan]

Hello ptbpilot,

You can actually edit HD video on Videostudio X3, you can create or burn BD using VS X3, if you want to try it out, you can download the free trial at http://www.corel.com/trials.

[Ken Berry]

This is very curious. I distinctly remember answering this post yesterday. But my post has disappeared!!

Your computer is certainly powerful enough to play and edit AVCHD as it is. No need to convert it to .avi at all. In any case, you don't say what kind of .avi you want to convert it to or why. You may not be aware that .avi is just a wrapper extension, and more than 800 different video formats use it -- and they are widely different.

I understand that Vegas Video uses the Cineform codec, and that it is quite good. However, its main utility was at a time when computers had not caught up with the demanding AVCHD format. Now they have, and as I say, there is no need with a computer like yours to go through any conversion process.

Moreover, if your intention is to burn a Blu-Ray disc, you can of course use your native/edited AVCHD for that too, since AVCHD is one of the acceptable Blu-Ray formats.

Although your computer should not need it, VS X3 also has a tool called SmartProxy which creates a copy of incoming high def video. The copy is standard definition and easy to edit. When you are finished editing, the edits are applied to the high def originals. However, this is mainly for people who don't have particularly powerful computers.

[Bruce5m]

I've been using Videostudio for several years. And, now I have a new Panasonic TM700 camera that outputs AVCHD. I'm mostly shooting kids hockey and generating sports videos.

I'm wondering about the best way to use the AVCHD files within Videostudio Pro X3 to make SD-DVD's with optimal quality. The AVCHD clips play fine on my computer and I've got enough horsepower to edit them in Videostudio.

I've tried the following:

1) Rendered AVCHD clips to AVCHD file output. Then, used MF 7 SE to make a AVCHD disk. But, it won't play on my DVD players (players are too old).

2) Rendered AVCHD clips to AVCHD file output. Then, used MF 7 SE to make a DVD disk. But, picture quality deteriorated.

3) Rendered AVCHD clips to DVD NTSC 16:9 output (variable bitrate 8000 kbps). Then, used MF 7 SE to make a DVD disk. But, picture quality deteriorated.

Is there something else that I should be trying to get a better quality DVD? Should I vary the settings output settings in VS? Should I downconvert the AVCHD clips before editing in VS?

[Ken Berry]

Re (1) -- AVCHD hybrid discs will ONLY play on Blu-Ray players rated to play such discs. They are in effect mini Blu-Ray discs, with a proper Blu-Ray structure which ordinary DVD players cannot recognise or play. So don't even think about it. It has nothing to do with the age of your player.

Re all the others: AVCHD is very high quality, high definition video, and mpeg-4 to boot - ANY rendering of it to standard definition video, particularly if it is to be burned to an SD DVD (i.e. SD mpeg-2), will result in deteriorated quality. You are going from 18,000 kbps or higher (24,000 kbps?) down to 8000 kbps (or lower). That is a tremendous hit in the quality stakes. Using 8000 is about as good as it will ever get as SD DVD. You could push it up to 9000 kbps but that is minimal and not all stand-alone DVD players will be able to cope with much over 8000 kbps.

[Bruce5m]

Thanks for the clarification. That makes sense.

I've burned a SD-DVD using AVCHD clips. The overall picture quality seems okay (not great). But, I'm seeing a lot of extra diagonal lines in the picture. For example, on a horizontal white stripe on a hockey jersey or on a hockey stick - there are diagonal alternating light and dark lines in the picture. Would this be related to interlacing? Is it possible to get rid of the lines?

[Ken Berry]

Those stripey things are more likely to the field order artifacts. AVCHD used Upper Field First, whereas the DVD template by default tends to use Lower Field First. Mixing the field orders will cause the sort of effect you describe. In that case you have to use Share > Create Video File > Custom, and change the Field Order to UFF.

[Bruce5m]

Thanks! I'll give it a try.

[Bruce5m]

I'm making a video that combines clips from a mini-DV camcorder (Sony DCR-PC9 NTSC) and a Panasonic HDC-TM700. To deal with field order issues - since AVCHD from the TM700 is UFF should I download the mini-DV footage using in AVI format with field order also set to UFF?

I guess all the clips in the VS project should have the same field order setting - right?

[Ken Berry]

I guess all the clips in the VS project should have the same field order setting - right?

Unfortunately, that is one of the most basic rules of video editing.

Even more unfortunately, if you capture from your mini-DV camcorder in DV/AVI format, you cannot change the field order. It is fixed at LFF. I guess you could try to capture it to SD mpeg-2 but even then I don't think you can change the field order.

So you are faced with the thorny question of how much video you have in DV in proportion to the whole project. If there is not all that much, and particularly if there is no high action or panning shots in it, then you could probably get away with rendering your whole project in UFF and get away with it.

[BUG-EYED]

Those stripey things are more likely to the field order artifacts. AVCHD used Upper Field First, whereas the DVD template by default tends to use Lower Field First. Mixing the field orders will cause the sort of effect you describe. In that case you have to use Share > Create Video File > Custom, and change the Field Order to UFF.

HEY KEN
If I read this correctly, DVD,s can be made with either field order.
I thought DVD was a standard, and dictated such things as field order.

Thanks, BUG-EYED.

[Ken Berry]

DVD is -- yes -- an international standard. But its parameters have a wide margin for variation. The only things fixed are that it has to be mpeg-2 (though mpeg-1 can also be used in some circumstances!); the speed is 25 fps for PAL and 29.97 fps for NTSC; and the maximum frame size is 720 x 576 (PAL) and 720 x 780 (NTSC). But even with the latter, there are various possibilities lower than this but bearing a proportional relationship to the maximum frame size. Combined audio and video bitrate cannot exceed 10,000 kbps, but of course can be just about anything below that -- though many stand-alone players have difficulty playing home made discs which use much more than 8000 kbps; and once you get below 4000 kbps -- which is both possible and permissible under the DVD standard (I think the lower limit, if there is one, is around 2000 kbps) -- you start getting rather murky quality, particularly with home made discs.

The Field Order can be UFF, LFF or Frame Based, or a mixture of all three on the same disc. Mixing UFF and LFF in the same *video* on the disc, however, will produce unwanted artifacts -- jaggies, and such. Having videos which use either UFF or LFF on the same *disc*, will not cause any difficulty as long as otherwise they meet the above standards.

[BUG-EYED]

THANKS AGAIN KEN.
I case anybody at my skill level is reading this, my DVD player would not play a FRAME/NO FIELDS DVD unless I set the player to PROGRESSIVE OUT.
kind of obvious, but wasn't aware I needed to do this on my player.
I left it configured that way, and will play all field/frame combinations.

BUG-EYED