Undesired black border removal

[hwilkins]

I have VS X2 (sp1 & sp2 installed). I am trying to convert videos from an uncompressed AVI format to something of reasonable size.

Unfortunately, the original source of these videos only output at 1080i, so EVERYTHING (including some only NTSC standard def videos) is upscaled to 1080i format.

Problem #1: the up-scaled NTSC 4:3 videos are full top-to-bottom screen, with the expected black-bars on left/right. When I try to write them out in any VS X2 output format, they end up getting an additional black border all around, as if they are being shrunk. The pixelation is horrible (it's not like their quality started out good). What I'd really like to do is just get them converted to standard def with NO borders.

Problem #2: even native HD captures (mostly 1080i) end up with a small black border as if they've been slightly shrunk / scaled.

I have tried the CROP and the PAN/ZOOM filters and cannot find a setting or combination that makes these full-size, no-border.

Any ideas?

[skier-hughes]

Could we have a bit more info here.

You mention these are uncompressed avi files, and also 1080i, can you confirm this is the case and also if you could use something like gspot, a video analyzer to tell us how the uncompressed file has been made.
http://www.myvideoproblems.com/WebPages ... rammes.htm

WHat were the original files?
Where did they come from?
How did you make the uncompressed avi file, using what software and / or hardware?

You mention NTSC, can you tell us where you are, so we kinow if NTSC is your native tv format and whether all the videos you are talking about are NTSC.


To problem one, if you take a file and upscale it, then compress it down it is going to lose a lot of quality. It would make sense to keep it as a SD video file to start with. Do you want SD 4.3 videos as your end product here? If so, getting this file on to your pc as a SD 4.3 file rather than an HD1080i wide screen video file in an uncompressed format would be the best way forward. An SD file takes 13gb per hour as a dv.avi and about 4gb per hour as a high quality mpeg2 file, so I can see your desire to reduce file size when an uncompressed avi would be hundreds of gigs per hour!!!!!!

Problem 2, what settings are you using to capture? Again knowing the hardware and process used to capture the native HD video would help with an answer.

[Trevor Andrew]

Just to add to Grahams reply.

If you are using HD video and 1080 is just that -- HD video. it uses 16:9 as its aspect ratio. That’s widescreen so 4:3 just doesn’t come into it.

As Graham has asked, the properties of your original video file is essential.

But to convert HD to standard Mpeg2 DVD is straight forward, although you may have to use the Custom option to set the correct Field Order, these must be the same as your original video properties.

By the way uncompressed AVI uses 65GB per hour.

[hwilkins]

Thank you both for the help so far. I think I have answered all of your questions.

You mention these are uncompressed avi files, and also 1080i, can you confirm this is the case and also if you could use something like gspot, a video analyzer to tell us how the uncompressed file has been made.

FILE_NAME FILE_NAME_WITH_PATH FILE_SIZE CONT_AUDIO_STREAM_COUNT CONT_BASETYPE CONT_BYTES_MISSING CONT_INTERLEAVE_ALIGN CONT_INTERLEAVE_PRELOAD CONT_INTERLEAVE_TIME CONT_SUBTYPE CONT_TOTAL_BITRATE VIDEO_ASPECT_CONVERT_AVI1 VIDEO_ASPECT_CONVERT_AVI2 VIDEO_ASPECT_CONVERT_CVD1 VIDEO_ASPECT_CONVERT_CVD2 VIDEO_ASPECT_CONVERT_DVD1 VIDEO_ASPECT_CONVERT_DVD2 VIDEO_ASPECT_CONVERT_SVCD1 VIDEO_ASPECT_CONVERT_SVCD2 VIDEO_ASPECT_CONVERT_VCD1 VIDEO_ASPECT_CONVERT_VCD2 VIDEO_ASPECT_SOURCE_MATCH VIDEO_ASPECT_TYPE_NTSC VIDEO_ASPECT_TYPE_PAL VIDEO_BITRATE VIDEO_CODEC_NAME VIDEO_CODEC_STATUS VIDEO_CODEC_TYPE VIDEO_DAR VIDEO_DURATION VIDEO_FIELDS_PER_SEC VIDEO_FRAME_COUNT VIDEO_FRAMES_PER_SEC VIDEO_H264 VIDEO_MPEG2 VIDEO_MPEG2_3X2 VIDEO_MPEG2_BFF VIDEO_MPEG2_I_L VIDEO_MPEG2_PPF VIDEO_MPEG2_PROG VIDEO_MPEG2_TFF VIDEO_MPEG4 VIDEO_MPEG4_BVOP VIDEO_MPEG4_GMC VIDEO_MPEG4_NVOP VIDEO_MPEG4_QPEL VIDEO_PAR VIDEO_PICS_PER_SEC VIDEO_QF VIDEO_SAR VIDEO_SIZE_X VIDEO_SIZE_Y AUDIO_BITRATE AUDIO_BITRATE_TYPE AUDIO_CHANNEL_COUNT AUDIO_CODEC AUDIO_CODEC_STATUS AUDIO_MPEG_STREAM_ID AUDIO_MPEG_SUBSTREAM_ID AUDIO_SAMPLE_RATE EndOfRec
MCS Award.avi D:\Convert\MCS Award.avi 11,771,846,656 1 AVI(.AVI) Multipart OpenDML AVI (5 parts), 0 30892 Motion JPEG Codec(s) are Installed MJPG 1.778 20:33.812 36977 29.970 1.000 29.970 0.497 1.778 1920 1080 1536 2 PCM Audio No Codec Required 48000 .
Today 20090327.avi D:\Convert\Today 20090327.avi 49,909,760 1 AVI(.AVI) 0 AVI v1.0, 0 76452 Motion JPEG Codec(s) are Installed MJPG 1.778 0:05.105 153 29.970 1.000 29.970 1.230 1.778 1920 1080 1536 2 PCM Audio No Codec Required 48000 .

WHat were the original files?

RE Problem #1, the original content was 4:3 NTSC SD recorded as it aired; it was our local school systems's cable channel where they ran an award ceremony that my daughter placed in. Very low quality, but still viewable. Definitely 4:3 originally.

RE Problem #2: one example is a short snip from the Today show, boradcast in 1080i originally and captured from that.

All of the video was sucked from its original format into a little video box whose name I don't even remember and no longer have access to. Its appears to have up-scaled everything to 1080i (including the NTSC/4:3 stuff) as its only method of output was 1080i.

Before losing access to the box, I played my videos and re-captured them using a BlackMagic Intensity Pro via component video and the Media Express software they ship with it (could not figure out how to make VS X2 capture from the Intensity Pro card).

You mention NTSC, can you tell us where you are, so we kinow if NTSC is your native tv format and whether all the videos you are talking about are NTSC.

I am located in the US. All the videos should all be NTSC.

To problem one, if you take a file and upscale it, then compress it down it is going to lose a lot of quality. It would make sense to keep it as a SD video file to start with.

Yes, I recognize that, but no longer have that option.

Do you want SD 4.3 videos as your end product here?

I want them in whatever format will retain the most content but not take up 11GB for a 20 minute SD 4.3 video...

Problem 2, what settings are you using to capture? Again knowing the hardware and process used to capture the native HD video would help with an answer.

I will have to go re-install Media Express as they were captured before I moved and the PC did not survive the move... as I recall, the Media Express settings were pretty much the stock/standard settings.

If you are using HD video and 1080 is just that -- HD video. it uses 16:9 as its aspect ratio. That’s widescreen so 4:3 just doesn’t come into it.

I recognise that -- however, the fact remains that the original was 4:3 SD, and was up-converted to 1080i 16:9 while being brought into the evil unnamed box. 1080i was the only output format, and so the Intensity captured all of the video at 1080i. It sucks, but it is what I have.

But to convert HD to standard Mpeg2 DVD is straight forward, although you may have to use the Custom option to set the correct Field Order, these must be the same as your original video properties.

This I did not know. Where in the gspot output does it tell field-order?

By the way uncompressed AVI uses 65GB per hour.

OK, so by my math, this is compressed >a little< as it is 11GB/20mins, or 33GB/hr ...

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

Thanks for the info, I don’t use Gspot and have to admit in finding the details a little confusing.

Video Properties:-
Add your video to the timeline, right click and select properties, what are they?

First for your final video do you want to keep 16:9 or 4:3 aspect.?
……………………………………………….
Ok try this:-
Place your video in the timeline……….
Edit the Project Properties (Alt+enter) to:-

NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
Lower Field First ( may be Upper to match video properties)
(DVD-NTSC), 16:9 ( I’m assuming you wish to retain widescreen)
Video data rate: 8000 kbps
LPCM Audio, 48000 Hz, Stereo

These are standard settings for Mpeg2 DVD.
………………………………………………….
Removing black borders
I have a Quick Guide regarding widescreen and how to convert between 4:3 and 16:9
This will remove the black border.
It was written for VS10 but is still applicable for later versions.
http://lata.me.uk/video_studio/16_9/16_9.htm
Scroll to the bottom of the images for details of how to convert.

Basically you are using the Distort function to resize the frame.

Once complete:-
Share Create Video File –Same as Project Properties
This will convert the project to a standard Mpeg2 DVD file at approximately 4 Gb per hour suitable for burning a DVD.

[skier-hughes]

By the way uncompressed AVI uses 65GB per hour.

Uncompressed sd avi files may be, at 720x480 pixel size, I was working on an uncompressed HD file of 1920x1080 pixel size per frame!!!

YOur video appears to have the motion jpeg compression used, "Motion JPEG Codec" which is not one of the best ones. Still we have to live with it.
I suspect when capturing the programme used was told to capture as an HD file, which has given us all the problems.

I also thik that you are going to have to live with what you have, changing it too much is going to just lose more quality, so I'd go for Trevor's options of saving to an SD file, and unless the black borders are really bad, I'd leave them in, as cropping them away and blowing up your poor video will just make it that bit poorer.

[hwilkins]

Thank you both -- I will try your suggestion this weekend and let you know how it goes.

I will also look into using different codecs for the Intensity capture in the future.

Does anyone know if it is possible to capture from the Intensity Pro directly into VS X2?

[Black Lab]

It is generally recommended that to capture you use the software that came with the hardware, then import into VS for editing.

[hwilkins]

Right -- that would be Media Express that comes with the Intensity Pro card. However, Graham & Trevor indicated that the codec it used was not optimal. I guess I will have to contact Black Magic Design and see if there are options to change out the codec.

Is there a recommended codec-set for best combination of quality and compression?

Thank you again,
Bobby

[skier-hughes]

I'm not conversant with media express, but all of the apps I've used for capture/edit have had a choice of capture formats, so a bit of an investigation should find something suitable, dv.avi is very good.