DVD's Play OK on PC's but Jitter on DVD Players

TurboByte · Post by **TurboByte** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:33 am

Hi, Yep I'm a newbee to Videostudio 8 (+MF3, have same prob with both) I am capturing analogue video and converting to Mpeg and burning onto DVDs. Have followed the suggested procedures in above post ( not read all as I am getting Very tired as I have been trying to sort this prob for 12 hours solid!

The capturing goes ok, either AVI or MPEG -no drop-outs ( have purpose built fast PC as per suggested spec)

When burnt, the DVDs play ok on any pc but jitter / jurk when played on any stand alone dvd player. Same pc & burner can produce DVDs with other software or copies of dvds which all play fine on stand alone DVD players, only have problems with DVD's produced by ulead software (VCD & sVCD work fine !!)

Have tried lowering the quality and kb/s etc on DVDs but they still jitter. There are No MISSING FRAMES.

It's not the same type of jitter you get if you have the field order wrong but more like the 1970's special effects in the Kate Bush Wuthering Heights Video...

HELP PLEASE before I go MAD trying to resolve this

maddrummer3301 · Post by **maddrummer3301** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:51 am

To troubleshoot the problem and isolate the burning engine of Ulead if on the "Output" Screen and click on the drop_down arrow right side of screeen.
You can create the dvd structure on the harddisk or create an ISO image file that can be burnt by almost any burning software.
Uncheck "Create Disk".

Most users create the dvd folders on the harddisk before burning a dvd to test the menu structure and video for proper operation.
After testing the video in a software player (WinDvd or PowerDvd) one can burn the dvd using Nero.
When using this method simply make sure you select Dvd-Video as the project when starting Nero. Then drag the VIDEO_TS folder from the harddisk to the VIDEO_TS folder in Nero's compilation window.

If the dvd plays good in your players then you can try downloading the Ulead burning engine updates. This is a selective update and you should backup the files before updating. Make sure not to overwrite any files that have a newer version (not newer date), right click on file for properties to find the version.

GuyL · Post by **GuyL** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:10 am

What field order are you capturing on and what field order are you creating your DVD on?

TurboByte · Post by **TurboByte** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 2:42 am

Good Idea maddrummer3301 here are the results of todays extensive testing:

Capture - AVI =VS8
Con AVI - MPG2 = VS8
con MPG2 - VOB = VS8
Burn VOBs = TMPGenc DVD

Jitters

Capture - AVI =VS8
Con AVI - MPG2 = VS8
con MPG2 - VOB = TMPGenc DVD
Burn VOBs = TMPGenc DVD

Jitters

Capture - AVI =VS8
Con AVI - MPG2 = TMPGenc DVD
con MPG2 - VOB = TMPGenc DVD
Burn VOBs = TMPGenc DVD

PERFECT PLAY BACK ON STANDALONE DVD PLAYER

Capture - AVI =VS8
Con AVI - MPG2 = TMPGenc DVD
con MPG2 - VOB = VS8
Burn VOBs = VS8

PERFECT PLAY BACK ON STANDALONE DVD PLAYER

Conclusion :

ULEADS MPG encoder is suspect. Tried upgrades and MF3 & Upgrades but points to MPG Encoder

Checked settings and made sure they are the same as TMPGenc ie
DVD PAL
CBR 8000 kb/s
720x576
25fps

only thing I can not get identicle is on TMPGENC video is Interlaced and no mension of any field orders on Ulead I have them set to Lower first and have tried de-interlaced but still get problem, can not find interlaced, not sure if this is relevent.

ANY Ideas before I ask for a refund on both VS8 and MF3 and go back to my good old faithfull TMPGENC

Cheers

david reece · Post by **david reece** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 12:11 pm

this may help as well.

go to your pagefile swap. do a serach from help in XP (not VS8).

if you have say 1024 mb of memory set min and maxt to 2048 mb.

i mention this a smy HP T690 was set to 1024 mon and max 3016 (!?!?!). i didnt set it at this. however at this setting jitters everywhere. changed to 2048 for min and max and no problem has occured since!. if you go to help of VS8 and select the optimising your system it tells you how to do this there also.

hope this is of help.

THoff · Post by **THoff** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 5:04 pm

David, what made the difference in your case is not the specific swap file size, but the fact that you created a permanent swap file.

By setting the minimum and maximum swap file size to the same value, you keep Windows from growing the file as needed. This will make a difference in system performance, especially if the commit charge (memory used) keeps growing steadily, and the I/O system is busy. UVS 8.0 with it's memory leak would be a prime example -- it slowly chews up more and more memory, while at the same time keeping the hard drive very busy, introducing latency when the swap file needs to be accessed.

htchien · Post by **htchien** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:58 am

Check http://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers to see if your media is compatible with your player.

Hope this helps.

H.T.

maddrummer3301 · Post by **maddrummer3301** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:41 pm

TurboByte,

Great info on the post.

Standard video is "Interlaced" so do not check de-interlace.
Two settings for Mpeg2 video (Standard Broadcast) PAL/NTSC
Interlaced is for playback on TV's (TV's use interlaced scanning to draw the picture (frame) on the TV screen (vertical scan top to bottom = 2 ).
Framebased is for playback on computer screens(monitors). Computer screens draw the screen in one pass of a vertical scan (top to bottom).

If you always stay with interlaced for Mpg2 files the software players on a computer system correct for this in playback for a framebased monitor.

Jittering can also be the wrong fields but sometimes jittering versus skipping are 2 different problems. Many times it's simply that the Dvd player can't read the dvd fast enough. The dvd player has to keep re-reading the sectors on the dvd because the media is not compatible with the player or something with the burning process.

Uleads field definitions are as follows:
Upper_Field_First = Field B.
Lower_Field_First = Field A.
(These are Uleads defintions, other programs may not use the same definitions).

DV(avi) camcorders are Lower_Field_First (Field A).
Analog capture devices are Upper_Field_First (Field B).

When recording from camcorder DV(avi) one usually has to forward into tape approx 10 seconds before recording(good data stream). VS 8 will record the wrong audio information in the avi file if one starts from the absolute beginning of the tape.

Settings that can be recorded wrong are:
12 bit 48khz audiio (?)
16 bit 32khz audio (?)

Correct audio settings from DV camcorder tape:
12 bit 32khz audio (correct)
16 bit 48khz audio (correct and is the video_dvd standard)

MD

IronMike778 · Post by **IronMike778** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:44 pm

All of my best success capturing analog tape has come this way:

I capture to 'DVD' format. I choose DVD in the drop down box, not AVI or MPEG from the drop down.

I have gotten fantastic quality of analog tape doing it this way.

david reece · Post by **david reece** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:59 pm

i read this in the Pinnacle booklet and it may be of help here.

basically not all DVD players can cope with VBR discs. what you get is jitters and jumps in the video.

It is suggested that if you are experiencing problems switch back to CBR to see if it works.

I think this has improved the situation on my disc.

Also they advise in XP that the graphics card by default is set to 32 bit. you need bring this down to 16bit quality for video capture and editing. and before anyone says it should be 24bit i know. i have actually read about this in Microsofts Smarter Digital Video. It is just an extra thought this! Also i wonder know if it may fix pulsating pixels in my video bringing this down.

its just a thought.

rdcolles · Post by **rdcolles** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:39 am

htchien wrote:Check http://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers to see if your media is compatible with your player.

Hope this helps.

H.T.

I've been having the "jitter" problem with my DVD's for a long time, and then I see this post. Looked at my DVD player and it only supports DVD-R. I'm using DVD+R because that's all my HP burner supports. Doh! Gee, I wonder if this has anything to do with my jitter problem.....

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:59 am

TurboByte -- you've received a lot of good advice above. But I am still puzzled about one thing. You say you are dealing with analogue video, yet you mention using, at least in the final stage, Lower Field First/Field Order A. That is potentially a cause of some concern, but first we need to know the properties, and most importantly Field Order, of your captured files, and exactly what device you used to capture them. As maddrummer has said, analogue video is associated with Upper Field First/Field Order B -- although the important word he did not use is 'normally'. I personally have an analogue capture card which captures -- and captures quite well -- using Lower Field First. And there are a few other such devices out there. But the bulk of analogue capture devices use Upper Field First. So that is why it is important to know the capture properties in detail and the capture device. If you, for instance, captured in one Field Order, but changed that in your final DVD-compliant mpeg-2 properties, then there would be little cause for doubt as to the reason for your current problem being a Field Order one.

I might also mention another hobby horse of mine, and that is burning speed. I personally burn at no more than 4x, even when using 12x discs (I have never had a 16x one!). I believe this slower burn gives a better chance for the laser signal to be firmly embedded in the DVD. Anyway, it is a factor to bear in mind.

Lastly, as you are probably aware, different stand-alone DVD players handle DVDs produced by different methods, well, differently! As has already been noted, some don't like particular brands of discs, or + or - discs, or whatever. I was thus intrigued by your reference to your discs produced on other programs playing in effect on all other stand-alone players. Anyway, you have already been give the suggestion to 'burn' your project not to a disc but to a Video_TS folder or ISO image file and then use another program to actually burn it to disc. I think this is a good suggestion, because it has to be acknowledged that quite a few people have had problems with the VS disc burner (though I haven't).

IronMike778 · Post by **IronMike778** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:38 am

Ken Berry wrote:TurboByte -- you've received a lot of good advice above. But I am still puzzled about one thing. You say you are dealing with analogue video, yet you mention using, at least in the final stage, Lower Field First/Field Order A. That is potentially a cause of some concern, but first we need to know the properties, and most importantly Field Order, of your captured files, and exactly what device you used to capture them. As maddrummer has said, analogue video is associated with Upper Field First/Field Order B -- although the important word he did not use is 'normally'. I personally have an analogue capture card which captures -- and captures quite well -- using Lower Field First. And there are a few other such devices out there. But the bulk of analogue capture devices use Upper Field First. So that is why it is important to know the capture properties in detail and the capture device. If you, for instance, captured in one Field Order, but changed that in your final DVD-compliant mpeg-2 properties, then there would be little cause for doubt as to the reason for your current problem being a Field Order one.

I might also mention another hobby horse of mine, and that is burning speed. I personally burn at no more than 4x, even when using 12x discs (I have never had a 16x one!). I believe this slower burn gives a better chance for the laser signal to be firmly embedded in the DVD. Anyway, it is a factor to bear in mind.

Lastly, as you are probably aware, different stand-alone DVD players handle DVDs produced by different methods, well, differently! As has already been noted, some don't like particular brands of discs, or + or - discs, or whatever. I was thus intrigued by your reference to your discs produced on other programs playing in effect on all other stand-alone players. Anyway, you have already been give the suggestion to 'burn' your project not to a disc but to a Video_TS folder or ISO image file and then use another program to actually burn it to disc. I think this is a good suggestion, because it has to be acknowledged that quite a few people have had problems with the VS disc burner (though I haven't).

Ken....that's a well thought out response, but I have to ask one question. Did you notice this thread was created in 2004? I hope for the thread starters sake he's figured this out by now!

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:43 pm

... or in the immortal words of our American colleagues --- "Duh"!!!!!! (I confess I seldom look at the dates except when a post covers several pages. I usually assume that if it's all on one page, then it is pretty recent!! Big mistake!!!)

jchunter · Post by **jchunter** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:25 am

Nevermind, Ken, I read the whole thread through, as you did, and was about to reply but was happy to see that you had made the right diagnosis about his jitters - the OP captured his analog video with the wrong field order. I hope he finally fixed it...