Terrible quality converting HD to SD

[benthegrate]

Hey, folks! I am editing a VERY important audition video with original footage from my Canon HF10, 1920x1080, shot in Cinema mode but 30fps.

Edited and burned to AVCHD on a DVD, it looks BRILLIANT on my HDTV and on my laptop.

However, I have to submit the DVD in standard definition. I've tried multiple scenarios...it always looks horrid.

First, I rendered a video file using the standard settings for DVD NTSC. Then I dragged that to the timeline and burned it. Horribly pixellated.

Second, after some research here, I rendered a custom file, upper field first, quality at max, 2 pass encode, 8000k bitrate. Then I viewed the file...horribly pixellated.

Third, I rendered a custom file, frame based, with the rest of the options listed above. Horribly pixellated.

So I rendered another custom file, lower field first, same options as above. Horribly pixellated.

Anyone have any clue how I can get normal-looking standard def video from this high def footage?

[Ken Berry]

Did the Canon come with any software which would at least allow you to first capture the video in SD mpeg-2 format, or allow conversion to that format?

[Leif G]

A late response to this post.
I am interested because I have a similar experience with burning to standard DVD from Canon HF original.
In answer to Ken's question,no there is no possibility to make a conversion from MPEG-4 to MPEG-2 in the Canon software that comes with the camera.
It is a very poor editing program,and they obviously have no intention of upgrading it,they are relying on people using other programs. To give you an example,I just tried to import some MPEG-2 files in the ImageMixer program,the files showed up upside down,and my computer locked and I had to close down.
There are 4 quality settings in the HF10 camera,all are MPEG-4 AVC/H.264, the highest 1920x1080,the other three 1440x1080. It's natural to want to use the highest setting I think,and I'm happy with the result in VS Pro X3.
I have tried several programs for HD to SD DVD burning, Movie Factory,CD Burner,Nero6,WinDVD,Main Concept,DVD Architect etcetera..with dissappointing results. (yes I know,it could be me being an amateur..)
Of course I do no expect to get HD quality,but you only have to look at any professionaly made standard DVD,and you can see that it is possible to get very good picture quality.
I have finally realised that to achieve that,you need to have expensive pro editing,rendering and burning programs.
So I have now given up,and am thinking of paying for having my DVDs made. It will be interesting to see what can be done.
I am surprised that so few are talking about this problem,because a lot of people are using HD cameras,and naturally wish to share the result with others,who most only have standard DVD players.
Leif G.

[erdna]

I did some tests in the past. The burning module which comes with X2 results in relatively soft images. X3 with movie factory7SE is one of the best. Power Director is slightly better in terms of aliasing. The difference is only viewable with (zoneplate) testptterns. I just import my AVCHD (1920x1080) rendered footage, without first converting, straight into MF7SE. I customize the output to MPEG-2, 720x576 (Europe), upper field first, 16:9, 100% quality, 2 pass encoding, VBR max 8000kb/s, 48 khz LPCM, and get perfect results.

[Ken Berry]

Leif G. wrote:

I am surprised that so few are talking about this problem,because a lot of people are using HD cameras,and naturally wish to share the result with others,who most only have standard DVD players.

One possible reason that so few are talking about it might be that they are not having such problems. Like Erdna, I get very good results using both X2 and its in-built burning module, downgrading from HD to SD DVDs; with with X3 combined with MF 7 SE. Unlike Erdna, though, I think I get marginally better results from X2. But this is only by a very small margin. Naturally, going from HD to SD, the final result is never going to look as good as the original. However, in both cases the results -- to me at least! -- are definitely better quality than one normally gets from SD video input.

I attribute my slight preference for X2's final quality to the fact that -- like Erdna again -- I finish my editing and then jump straight to Share > Create Disc > DVD. The project file is then opened in the X2 burning module and I can adjust the burning properties there for the final burn. (And before anyone jumps in and says this goes against the normal recommended procedure of this forum, yes, I acknowledge that. But I only ever do it this way with HD video...)

This is of course not possible with X3 unless you use the awful DVD Factory "Pro" 2010 which comes with it. If using MF 7, you have to first produce a DVD-compatible mpeg-2 in X3, then insert that in MF 7 for burning. As I say, I still get very good results that way, though just a fraction lower quality than with X2.

[erdna]

Strange Ken. Can't you insert a renderd fullHD file inMF7SE and create an SD DVD out of it. That's the way i do it and it's definitely not with
"Pro"2010, but with MF7SE.

[Ken Berry]

I think you might have misunderstood what I was saying. MF 7 (neither SE or Pro) will NOT accept a project file (.vsp) from X3. So you have no choice but to use a rendered file. Whether it is down-rendered in X3 to DVD-compatible mpeg-2 or an edited HD file, rendered to a new HD file in X3, is a matter of choice. With X3 and MF 7 SE, I choose the down-rendering route, but acknowledge that inserting a rendered HD file into MF would also be acceptable.

But with X2, which of course accepts X2 project files, I don't bother rendering after editing. I edit my HD video in X2, then jump straight into the burning module, so that it down-renders the HD to DVD-compatible mpeg-2 as part of the burning process.

[Leif G]

Happy again Thank you erdna and Ken. I now have new hope.
Following erdna's method, I actually got acceptable result this time. Sharpness I probably can't do more about without a more sofisticated program. I have MainConsept Reference and DVD Architect Pro on trial,and will have a go with them again.
But they are expensive programs,not worth buying unless they can give clearly better result.
Now remains two problems, the burned DVD looks slightly darker than the original,and the saturation is too low.
These things could be fixed in editing with colour correction I believe. I will try that tomorrow.
Still,I am curious to see what the quality would be like,if I were to pay for having the DVDs made.

Leif G.

[erdna]

Hi Ken, indeed I misunderstood sorry. In the mean time I did some comparisons again (with still testpatterns) between the X2 pre mpeg2 render, the X2 pre AVCHD render, and the straight VSP into the X2 burning module vs X3 pre mpeg2 render and pre AVCHD render in the MF7SE module. I customized the output to MPEG-2, 720x576 (Europe), upper field first, 16:9, 100% quality, 2 pass encoding, VBR max 8000kb/s, 48 khz LPCM, for all tests (in the burning module and in the pre- rendered properties as well). I used disc images (.iso) instead of physical discs for all my tests.I still find that the X#> create avchd>Mf7SE (with the same Mpeg-2 settings as the others) results in more "punchy" results...and more aliasing.

[Ken Berry]

Good to know!