I am using DVD Workshop 2 with current updates. I have been subtitling a project and got several minutes into it when I encountered a problem.
There is a 20 second "slate" in the video, with a sentence in 4 large text lines on a black background. The slate was created in Adobe Premiere Pro and then rendered as part of the video. The problem is that any subtitle which starts prior to the slate and continues into it will display ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE SLATE. Once I get beyond the slate, the subtitles begin working again. If I pause the playback while the slate is there, the subtitles show correctly at the paused position(s).
If I use a subtitle endpoint timecode just prior to the slate, then no subtitle will show at all until the slate is gone, then the subtitle works fine.
So, to recap, any subtitle running at the start of the slate continues for the full 20 second slate, even if the end time of that subtitle is during the slate. AND if no subtitle is on the screen when this slate starts, none will appear until the slate has passed.
I have tried different fonts, different sizes, different colors, different backgrounds, different screen positions and justifications, and also tried deleting the subtitles during the slate and recreating them. I have looked at the subtitle .TXT file and see nothing odd about the "slate" portion. All of the subtitles are being entered by hand, not imported from a .TXT file.
This creates a real problem since I have several slates that appear while dialog is occurring that needs to be subtitled.
Does anyone have any idea why this is happening and how it might be fixed?
Bob L.
Subtitles fail to show over some content
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MikeGunter
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RALechner
Subtitles fail to show over some content
Mike,
It's kind of hard to show what *doesn't* happen in a screen shot, lol. The subtitles have been working fine up to the point where they don't, when this graphic is displayed. If I set the in/out times so that the subtitle ends during the graphic, the subtitle continues all the way through the graphic, even though there are other subtitles set to run during the graphic also. If I set the subtitle prior to the graphic so that it ends just beforehand, NO subtitles show up until the graphic is over. In either case, subtitling resumes after the graphic is done. The subtitle font, size, entry, etc., etc., are all identical to what goes before and after the graphic, which all display just fine.
The ONLY thing different about the graphic is that it is a 'title object' created in Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 and inserted into a captured AVI. The whole thing was rendered into an AVI file, so it should all be AVI (wouldn't ya think !?!) and it really shouldn't matter if I am titling over a graphic slate or regular camera video.
Tonight I am going to make a new slate on our analog editing system, capture to beta (the camera source was on beta), then capture into Premiere and replace the slates so that they aren't Premiere titles. If *that* works then I know there is something about titles created in Premiere that DVD Workshop doesn't like, as far as subtitling. But having worked with PC's and video for over 20 years, it just doesn't make sense...I think it's just a peculiarity of DVD Workshop regarding the 'quality' of that 20 second slate. I'll try to look at it on a 'scope and see if there is something odd about it, maybe in the vertical interval...who knows?
Thanks for your reply and any suggestion you or anyone else might bring.
Regards,
Bob L.
It's kind of hard to show what *doesn't* happen in a screen shot, lol. The subtitles have been working fine up to the point where they don't, when this graphic is displayed. If I set the in/out times so that the subtitle ends during the graphic, the subtitle continues all the way through the graphic, even though there are other subtitles set to run during the graphic also. If I set the subtitle prior to the graphic so that it ends just beforehand, NO subtitles show up until the graphic is over. In either case, subtitling resumes after the graphic is done. The subtitle font, size, entry, etc., etc., are all identical to what goes before and after the graphic, which all display just fine.
The ONLY thing different about the graphic is that it is a 'title object' created in Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 and inserted into a captured AVI. The whole thing was rendered into an AVI file, so it should all be AVI (wouldn't ya think !?!) and it really shouldn't matter if I am titling over a graphic slate or regular camera video.
Tonight I am going to make a new slate on our analog editing system, capture to beta (the camera source was on beta), then capture into Premiere and replace the slates so that they aren't Premiere titles. If *that* works then I know there is something about titles created in Premiere that DVD Workshop doesn't like, as far as subtitling. But having worked with PC's and video for over 20 years, it just doesn't make sense...I think it's just a peculiarity of DVD Workshop regarding the 'quality' of that 20 second slate. I'll try to look at it on a 'scope and see if there is something odd about it, maybe in the vertical interval...who knows?
Thanks for your reply and any suggestion you or anyone else might bring.
Regards,
Bob L.
MikeGunter wrote:Hi,
So the subtitle is supposed to *end* during the graphic and doesn't? Mine works fine.
Have you double checked the "Add/Edit Subtitles" Menu?
Could you post a screen shot?
Mike
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pauley
Bizarre. To DVDWS it should just be a video feed in the AVI. It almost sounds as if there is some spec in your avi format that states 'this section is a still picture - so don't make any changes' and DVDWS is honoring it with the subtitles. Two things come to mind (assuming my hypothesis has some merit):
1) Convert the movie to mpg in Adobe, then bring that into DVDWS and add the subtitles. Just make sure you tell DVDWS not to re-encode. I don't think addding subtitles should force a re-encode, since that is a separate data stream in the DVD.
2) Add some motion to your 'slate'. A background smoke or something. I'm sure you can think of something subtle.
Pauley
1) Convert the movie to mpg in Adobe, then bring that into DVDWS and add the subtitles. Just make sure you tell DVDWS not to re-encode. I don't think addding subtitles should force a re-encode, since that is a separate data stream in the DVD.
2) Add some motion to your 'slate'. A background smoke or something. I'm sure you can think of something subtle.
Pauley
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RALechner
Subtitles fail to show over some content
Pauley,
Thanks for your suggestions. I may try them when I get some time after this project is done. For now, had to get past this hurdle so I recorded the slate on beta tape for 60 sec and captured that in Premiere. Then I took the original AVI and inserted the new captured slate where the Premiere title object slate had been. Re-rendered the same way to AVI and tried it in DVDWS and *voila!* it worked just fine. Subtitles come and go at the bottom of the slate during the dialog like they are/were supposed to.
Still, bothers me that I had to take these extra steps. Perhaps I should blame Premiere and not DVDWS, don't know and too busy working on this thing to worry about it now that I have a workaround. For the rest of the segments (3 done, 12 more to do), I can use that same new AVI slate capture just as easily as the Premiere title object that I was dropping in wherever it was needed. So, it's all good for now anyway.
If I try either of your suggestions later on, I'll post back with the results here.
Thanks,
BobL.
Thanks for your suggestions. I may try them when I get some time after this project is done. For now, had to get past this hurdle so I recorded the slate on beta tape for 60 sec and captured that in Premiere. Then I took the original AVI and inserted the new captured slate where the Premiere title object slate had been. Re-rendered the same way to AVI and tried it in DVDWS and *voila!* it worked just fine. Subtitles come and go at the bottom of the slate during the dialog like they are/were supposed to.
Still, bothers me that I had to take these extra steps. Perhaps I should blame Premiere and not DVDWS, don't know and too busy working on this thing to worry about it now that I have a workaround. For the rest of the segments (3 done, 12 more to do), I can use that same new AVI slate capture just as easily as the Premiere title object that I was dropping in wherever it was needed. So, it's all good for now anyway.
If I try either of your suggestions later on, I'll post back with the results here.
Thanks,
BobL.
pauley wrote:Bizarre. To DVDWS it should just be a video feed in the AVI. It almost sounds as if there is some spec in your avi format that states 'this section is a still picture - so don't make any changes' and DVDWS is honoring it with the subtitles. Two things come to mind (assuming my hypothesis has some merit):
1) Convert the movie to mpg in Adobe, then bring that into DVDWS and add the subtitles. Just make sure you tell DVDWS not to re-encode. I don't think addding subtitles should force a re-encode, since that is a separate data stream in the DVD.
2) Add some motion to your 'slate'. A background smoke or something. I'm sure you can think of something subtle.
Pauley
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MikeGunter
Re: Subtitles fail to show over some content
Hum,RALechner wrote:
It's kind of hard to show what *doesn't* happen in a screen shot, lol.
I meant this:
The problem you are experiencing doesn't seem possible. I wanted to get a look at where your start/stops were on the title line.
You can see that I've in the Add/Edit Subtitles menu and I have 3 subtitles.
You can also see the start/end times for each title.
What does yours look like? Is you face color the same as the slate?
Mike
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RALechner
Re: Subtitles fail to show over some content
Mike,
Yes, it looks like your screen shot. Except that mine is over a slate. And it's a moot point now, because I found a workaround that I described in my post above.
As near as I can determine, something in the title object that I created in Premiere was preventing DVDWS subtitles from running. When I created a new slate with a character generator instead, recorded to beta and captured in Premiere, then re-rendered the same project as one long AVI just as before...the subtitles work fine with NO OTHER CHANGES.
I know it seems crazy but, hey, it's amazing all this stuff works as well as it does. My first splices were manual in 2" quad videotape, so it's a treat to use Premiere and DVDWS to create a program...just a pain when it doesn't work as advertised.
Anyway, thanks for trying to help but I had to work around it quickly and I did.
Regards,
BobL
Yes, it looks like your screen shot. Except that mine is over a slate. And it's a moot point now, because I found a workaround that I described in my post above.
As near as I can determine, something in the title object that I created in Premiere was preventing DVDWS subtitles from running. When I created a new slate with a character generator instead, recorded to beta and captured in Premiere, then re-rendered the same project as one long AVI just as before...the subtitles work fine with NO OTHER CHANGES.
I know it seems crazy but, hey, it's amazing all this stuff works as well as it does. My first splices were manual in 2" quad videotape, so it's a treat to use Premiere and DVDWS to create a program...just a pain when it doesn't work as advertised.
Anyway, thanks for trying to help but I had to work around it quickly and I did.
Regards,
BobL
MikeGunter wrote:** snippage ***RALechner wrote:
It's kind of hard to show what *doesn't* happen in a screen shot, lol.
The problem you are experiencing doesn't seem possible. I wanted to get a look at where your start/stops were on the title line.
*** snippage***
Mike