.mov (MPEG4-AVC) crash work around

[requestor12]

Just checked: I have DirectX11 running on Windows 7 (+ all Windows patches). I have both patches from Ulead installed, and still not working. Same error message again.

In my virtual machine (running XP) I installed the trial version of VS Pro X4 and now I am able to open the file...

Since it's working on your machine and not on mine, I don't know anymore what to do (except for buying X4)

[requestor12]

YEAH!! Solved! Installing QuickTIme solved the issue! When I installed QT_Lite_410, Ulead was able to open the file. Great help! Thank so much!

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi requestor

It got a little late last night so had to leave this post, just read your replies……

Glad you have managed to get the video file opened in Video Studio
I had never considered that you did not have QuickTime?

I had no problems downloading the first mov, provided I used Save Target As, so I hadn’t needed to try the second link, which indecently downloaded ok. Both files are identical.

I have been able to convert the file to Mpeg2 and Dv-avi without problems, frame based had to be used to keep the best quality.

My Quicktime version is 7.5.5 which came with the X4 installation.

requestor12
Now that you have opened the file, what are you intending to make.

HD DVD?
SD DVD?
Video for YouTube?

[requestor12]

I am so happy for all the help that's provided, great! I wasn't aware that QuickTime was required to be installed, else I would have told you so!

I am planning to make a SD DVD, because 80% of the data that I have is SD-material and the remaining part is HD data. I am not very familair with the different type of data. Mpeg2 is the format used in a DVD, right? The data that I capture from my camera (via tape) is DV-AVI I believe, and DV-AVi is uncompressed data. Correct?

And I have seen the Field Type options in Ulead, lower field fist, frame based and upper field first right? Honestly I don't understand the differences and why you have selected frame based instead of the other field types? E.g. what if I have both .mov data and dv-avi data and I want to create a DVD. What field type should I use?

Regards, M

[Ken Berry]

DV-AVI is not, in fact, uncompressed. It has some compression -- uncompressed AVI, for instance, is 65 GB per hour of video whereas DV is about 13 GB per hour. However, the algorithms used in DV make it virtually lossless. That is its beauty.

DV is also, as you know, Lower Field First. Various types of .mov files are Frame Based. You can convert a project with mixed mov and DV files in it to DVD-compatible mpeg-2 using Lower Field First because Frame Based video can take on the aspects of either Lower or Upper Field First with no problem. However, what you have to avoid is mixing Upper and Lower Field First video in one project. This is because one or the other will be changed in the final product, and the usual result is jerky video in those parts where the Field Order has been changed from its original, particularly in fast-moving panning shots; plus jagged edges on (particularly) vertical lines.

To put it as simply as possible, this is because of interlacing. Interlaced video is composed of lines of video: 576 in a PAL DVD video and 480 in NTSC. That is the way the eye perceives them. But in reality they are projected in two lots of alternating lines, and depending on the system used to film them, all the odd-numbered lines (1, 3, 5 etc) are projected first followed a split second later by all the even lines (2,4, 6 etc). But the eye perceives them altogether as one single image. That is Upper Field First. With Lower Field First, the reverse occurs with even-number lines appearing first followed by the odd-numbered ones. And the end result is the same to the human eye as long as everything is meant to be broadcoast in one Field Order.

But if you mix the two, the eye can detect that something is wrong with parts of the video since in those parts it is seeing the lines being projected the wrong way about. That is why it is important to make sure you use just the one Field Order in any one project.

Frame Based (and progressive HD) video is different since every line is projected at the same time as a single frame. If mixed with either UFF or LFF video, Frame Based video can take on the properties of either UFF or LFF with no problem since in effect every line has the same value and it doesn't matter in which order they are projected.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

Just to add to Kens excellent reply.

Your DV-Avi I am assuming is a Pal type, the Mov file is Ntsc.

Now if you are going to mix these two types in the same video file then you will be converting one of them, probably the Mov ntsc to Pal, reducing the frame size from 1920 to 720 and also interlacing.

When I did the conversion test on your sample the quality was reduced more than I would have thought.
I had to use Frame Based for best results.
I did create a Dv-Avi frame based then converted to Mpeg upper field, but each time I tried interlaced the results were poor.

Beauty is in the eye, maybe I’m being a little critical?

All you can do is try, give it a go…………

Personally I would convert Mov to DV-Avi frame based, edit with the rest of the video files/project, convert project to Mpeg2 DVD Lower Field—burn a disc.

[requestor12]

thanks Trevor, Ken for the explanation. It will take some time for me to understand since it's quite technical. But your explanation helps me a lot to understand.

I have one remark: the provided sample video is (apparantly) in NTSC format. But the sample belongs to the reviewer of the camera and that's not me! The reason I linked to the file was to test if you were able to read the file in Ulead.

I use PAL only. So there will be no mixture of PAL and NTSC

[requestor12]

I am still trying to understand your answers: I captured the following data DV-AVi (PAL) + .MOV (PAL) and both will be used, randomly, in my project.

A few questions:
1. Currently I am using the TBYB version of X4, however program is in Dutch (though downloaded from US website) where I prefer English. How to change?
1. Using the .MOV files only: When I watch the original files, it's running smoothly, however when I create a DVD (and also AVCHD) both lower field first and later framebased, I noticed that with horizontal movements the video is jerky / stuttering. What did I do wrong?
2. You wrote: "You can convert a project with mixed mov and DV files in it to DVD-compatible mpeg-2 using Lower Field First because Frame Based video can take on the aspects of either Lower or Upper Field First with no problem". I assume this can be done via (a) share (b) create video file and then select MPEG Microsoft AVI and then via options change the frame type, right?

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

Trial Version
I am not sure if there are different files for different countries, I know you can select the TV Standard Pal or Ntsc during installation by selecting a country, but don’t know if this changes the language.

Its been an while since I tested your file and have had to download again.
The mov file is a NTSC identified by the Frame Rate of 29.970fps (Pal would use 25 fps)

Field Order
Your Mov appears to be Frame Based, the DV-Avi will be Lower Field.

click image for larger view

requestor.jpg (15.58 KiB) Viewed 7543 times

As you are intending to create a DVD then your mov file will be converted eventually to a DVD Mpeg2 compliant file using Pal, so three changes have to be made, the frame order to lower field, the frame rate to 25fps and the frame size reduced to 720 x 576.
Now all this is going to cause some reduction in quality.

You are also using Dv-Avi files.
I think your best option would be first to convert the Mov files to Dv-Avi using the same properties as your Dv-Avi.
Then use all files in a project, edit, convert project / render to compliant DVD Mpeg2

Make Movie Templates Manager

Use this to create two templates
1 / …..DV-Avi, using the “add” function select one of your Avi files.
2 / ….DVD Mpeg 2 using Lower Field.

I will runs a few tests to see if I can keep the quality of the Mov when converting to Dv-Avi
Gonna be away all day

[requestor12]

According to the specification of my photo camera (Nikon S8100), the produced .MOV files are 29,970 Frames/second regardless of NTSC / PAL... I shot a movie with NTSC and later with PAL, and indeed, both are 29,970 Frames/second, identical to the provided details in your previous reply (screen shot).

First I'll use the .MOV files to create a DVD and to become more familair with using .MOV files, later I'll also use the DV-AVi files.

Like you said, three changes have to be made, (a) the frame order to lower field, (b) the frame rate to 25fps and the (c) frame size reduced to 720 x 576. I did:
1. Enabled Smart Proxy, see screen shot
2. Create Disk (DVD), see screen shot
3. project setting, see screen shot
Result of created DVD is disappointing, horizontal movements are shaky, not smoothly (where original .MOV file is running smoothly).

What did I do incorrect?

[Ron P.]

I think it is more a problem with you having a camera not intended for use in the U.K. Since it records the video to NTSC standards. You can't just change the frame rate and frame size from NTSC to PAL and expect it to be smooth. Since NTSC uses a faster frame rate, VS will drop 4.97 frames a second, and for the frame size, it will need to create an additional 96pxs for each frame.

I've read posts from Ken and Trevor, most DVD players in the UK now are able to play NTSC DVDs, so you might try producing one with the NTSC specs and see if it plays ok for you.

Here's some reading on the NTSC vs PAL conversions:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/ar ... sc_pal.htm

[requestor12]

I agree that the camera is where the problem starts. I bought the camera in The Netherlands (where I live), so raised a ticked with Nikon.

If I change the format to 25fps it is running (quite) smooth, but the quality of the generated file is far from being acceptable (not sharp and some parts, containing lot's of details, seems to move / dance). Did I use incorrect settings, or is the conversion from .MOV to DVD (too) difficult for Ulead?

And btw, I tried producing one with the NTSC specs but that's not OK for me.

[Ron P.]

The "dancing around", is judder, or jerkiness, which is caused by the different frame rates. VS discards the extra frames, and this is not going to make for a smooth flow. It really does not matter on what program you choose to use to try and get the conversion from NTSC to PAL, as they all must do the same thing, and that is remove the extra frames, and then shrink the video's frame size. I suppose there are some programs that do it better, but they are going to be a little pricey.

About the only place NTSC and PAL has no bearing is on a computer. Those standards apply only to television. You can watch an NTSC video on your PC without any problems, just as I can view a PAL. It's when we put those videos on DVDs to watch on our TV.

[requestor12]

I understand, so the problem is caused by the fact that the camera records 29,97 frames per second and removing some frames will result in less quality since NTSC = ~30 FPS where PAL = 25 frames per second.

I assume that the frame size 1920 * 1080 will not cause issues when converting to PAL format 720 x 576. Right?

[Ron P.]

I assume that the frame size 1920 * 1080 will not cause issues when converting to PAL format 720 x 576. Right?

Correct, that shouldn't pose a problem, since you're reverting to a smaller frame size, and most importantly it's the same for NTSC and PAL.