Jerky video output from Videostudio

[Oti]

Hi,

Need some help here! Searched the forum, but can't find anything useful to my problem.

Using a Canon Powershot G12 camera and it records 1280x720 px .mov, H.264, 23.976 fps.

Doesn't matter how my project properties are in Videostudio Pro X3. Think I tried almost everything. As soon as I create a video through VS Pro X3 (all update patches installed) the result is a jerky video. Using the recommended (by Corel) version of Quicktime, as the most recent Quicktime version causes VS to crash. Tried this on 3 different computers with the same result.

Project settings:
TV standard: 24 fps
Frame rate 23.976 fps
Frame Type: Frame based
Frame size: 1280x720 px
Compression: Doesn't matter (same result anyway)

Share:
Create Video File:
- Same as project = Jerky video
- Upload to YouTube (MPEG-4 HD 16:9) = Jerky video
- Xvid or any other format = Jerky video

Here is the file on YouTube as it should look (original .mov file from the camera directly uploaded to YouTube):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luFC8tl2sWo

Here is the file on YouTube after created with Videostudio Pro X3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBv89yQhkm0

Any suggestions?

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

If you use Share Create Video File same as Project you will make either a DV-Avi or a Mpeg2. neither of which is what you want.

First try Share Upload to YouTube-Mpeg-4 HD
------------------------------------
Using Settings -- Make Movie Manager to create your own templates.
There is many options to try

Mov option with Mpeg4 compression.
Under the General user define your frame size.

You could try the Flash option again “user Define 2 the frame size.
or
Avi with Microsoft Mpeg 4


I have just viewed the two youtube clips, not much difference????????????????

[Ron P.]

If you're using same as project settings and using the settings you posted, I can see the potential problem, especially if your video clips are not like that. The frame rate of 24fps, or 23.976 are either a typo or a very unconventional frame rate. If your video clip uses 25fps or 29.97 (NTSC), VS will cut-off the amount of frames for every second of video to get the frame rates of 24 or 23.976.

If it is just a typo then ignore this..

[Oti]

Hi,

The problem seems to by the combination 23.976 fps and 1280x720 px. Not many templetes you can make with that combination with a decent bitrate from within VS (Settings --> Make Movie Templetes Manager). For instance mp4 only support 25 fps or 29.970 fps at 1280x720 px. I also tried other formats too (mov, MPEG-4, XviD etc), but the same jerky output.

With my older Canon camera that records 640x480 px and 30 fps, I have no problem making nice videos from VS. Easy to find support for 640x480px/30fps, but the combination 1280x720px/23.976fps seems difficult in VS PRO X3.

As I'm using the Canon Powershot G12 with HD (1280x720px/23.976fps) I can't be the only one with this problem using Videostudio PRO X3!

You said "not much difference" - Please pay attention. I have uploaded two more clips. One unprocessed and the other processed by VS. Of course this behaviour is most visible when panning or other fast movements in the picture, which are likely to happen once in a while.

Unprocessed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS9syACDpUo

Processed through VS Pro X3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGGNKaf90wc
This version was with the default YouTube HD 16:9 (1280x720px/25fps), as it's not possible to make your own combination of templete (1280x720 px/23.976 fps) and a decent bitrate (5000 kbps or so)

[Ron P.]

This is another one of the problems that arise when the industry does not, subscribe to a standard. Each will have it's own little variance, and your Canon camera seems to be one such variance. The camera manufacturers are probably guessing that the users of their product will not want to edit the video, but just watch it.

I checked the Canon website and yes the camera does use this 23.976fps to record using the h.264 codec. Why Canon done this is mystery. This is not the fault of Corel or VS. The other SD formats are recorded to the SD specs of 29.97fps. I think that if the camera done the same with SD quality it would not be noticeable, however with HD, there is a lot of detail captured so even the slightest deviation can be detected.

[Ron P.]

I downloaded both examples and viewed them in Media Player Classic and VLC media player. I used them to view what they reported the frame rates to be, and also loaded both into VS X3 and looked at the properties. Some screenshots of what I found. There may be fault attributed to YouTube, and to the media player's interpretations.

First two are of the properties according to VS;

vsx3_utube_default.jpg (26.44 KiB) Viewed 6556 times

unprocessed.jpg (26.57 KiB) Viewed 6556 times

Next are the properties according to MPC;

vsdefault_mpc properties.jpg (22.57 KiB) Viewed 6556 times

unprocessed_mpc.jpg (24.13 KiB) Viewed 6556 times

VLC media Players:

vsprocess_vlc.jpg (42.91 KiB) Viewed 6556 times

vlcmedia player_unprocessed.jpg (44.13 KiB) Viewed 6556 times

[Ken Berry]

I too have to say that I am mystified by that frame rate! Seems as though Canon is trying to give the video that 'movie' effect by using a speed equivalent to the cinematic 24 fps.

But I have to add that Oti's computer listed in his Profile indicate that it is simply incapable of playing back AVCHD (which is what his video is) smoothly, and possibly also not being able to edit it smoothly either unless it is a Pentium IV 3.0 GHz with Hyperthreading. But to be able to play it smoothly it needs to be at least a decent Core 2 Duo... I know that he says he has tried it on 3 separate computers, but if they are similar to his, the result would be the same: jerky video...

Apart from that, he could try making a Custom template in Make Movie Manager by using the Add button down at the bottom. In the new dialogue box, give the new template an obvious name; then in the File Path window, click on the "..." button and navigate to where he has one of the Canon clips stored and select it. That should create a template with exactly the same properties. Note that this template cannot later be edited. If this happens, it will revert to a SD DVD one...

[Oti]

Hi,

Thanks for the tip regarding making a custom template from the movie file. You mentioned "Make Movie Manager". I asume you mean "Make Movie Templates Manager"? I tried the Make Movie Templates Manager and unfortunately VS seems to support such action only from .avi and .mpg movie files. Could not make a template from the. mov file, or have I missed something?

Ok about the framerate etc. from downloaded files from YouTube. Not sure why the files show up with a slight difference in framrate to what it should be, but as you mentioned it might be missinterpreted by the player or slighly altered by YouTube.

Anyway this is how the unprocessed .mov file's properties looks like in VS:

unprocessed.jpg (82.78 KiB) Viewed 6552 times

The unprocessed file can be downloaded here (13,8 MB):
http://boggen2.mine.nu/oti/otipix/unprocessed.mov

Anyway, any ideas what to do? Or do you think Corel will add support for this combination of HD framerate/resolution? I guess Canon will continue on this path with this framerate/fps combination for their HD "compact" cams and as I have this camera I'm anxious to make this to work with VS. I hope I don't have to look for other editing software as I like VS and been using it for years.

Or is there any other way of creating a template (1080x720 px/23.976 fps) with a reasonable framerate. I prefer mp4 or XviD (MPEG4) as a compressed version of the unprocessed files.

//Stefan in chilly Sweden

[Ken Berry]

That clip plays fine (i.e. smoothly) on my i3 processor computer... (My only comment would be to suggest that you make any such pans very much slower, which is normal for high definition video...)

I am trying to find my computer with Quicktime Pro on it so I can actually save that clip and test it out at this end. (And don't ask about "find my computer" -- I only recently moved to New Zealand and haven't got all my 7 computers up and working as yet!!!)

[Oti]

Yes, this is the unprocessed clip and it plays smootlhy here too. The problem is when I process clips (.mov - 1080x720 px/23.976 fps) in VS, then I get the jerky output (because VS has no good support for this combination of resolution/fps I guess). I made this pan intentionally "too" fast so it's easier to see the jerky result on the processed video. If I chose VS's YouTube default output the framerate is set to 25 fps causing jerky output.

Not possible to create a templete with 1080x720px/23.976fps and a decent bitrate, so guess I'm stuck in a corner, unless Corel comes up with a solution to this, or any other ideas what to do?

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Stefan

Smart Render has been known to cause some quality problems when rendering HD.

Try disabling this option.

From the Create Video File -- Save window select “Options” – deselect Smart Render.

[Ken Berry]

Can you also absolutely confirm that you tried my alternate method to make a custom menu, using the Add route as described above, and that it was that method that did not work...

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Ken

Make Movie Templates Manager
I cannot use the file provided by Stefan to create a template using the Add function.

A little more info on the canon video.

I own a Canon 7D which produces the same video type using identical properties, as does the Canon 5D.

Notice that the Compression details are missing when viewing the properties.
Afaik these should show as H264 / AVC

Now I do not know if Video Studio supports Mov H264 I guess not, which leaves us converting to another compression type.

I have tried a few conversion types using VS and Super and still get the jerky video.

Running out of time at the moment but will run more tests later, maybe try samples from my camera.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Stefan

The Canon camera is supplied with software, a “viewer” called Zoom Browser.
Generally used to view still images but will also play the canon videos..
I am unable to play your sample video, seems a little strange as its Canon software.
The program displays “cannot play video” then closes/crashes without warning.

Are you able to use your Zoom Browser to play your clips?

I have ZB version 65115

[Oti]

Hi,

Yes, I always have had the SmartRender feature disabled to be sure it really rendering the whole clip.

Can not use .mov files to create a templete. See below:

Screendump.jpg (96.87 KiB) Viewed 977 times

I'm about to give up.

I downloaded the Adobe Premiere Elements and no problem with that program to set frame size (1280x720 px), fps and bitrate to whatever you'd like and it worked out fine at the first try!

I asume Corel eventually will implement support for the Canon cameras in HD like mine (Powershot G12), but I guess that will take months before that happens. As I mentioned before, I can't be the only one having problems with this.

Don't know Corel's refund policy, but I only had the software for 1 week, so perhaps it's possible to get a refund.

//Stefan