Problem editing .mov files from Canon 5D mkii

[stormcab]

I went from DV, to AVCHD earlier in the year. I had no luck at all getting one smooth render using AVCHD from my Panasonic camcorder. So when I bought my Canon 5D MKII I thought the HD files would be easier/better to work with. I have edited together some files just for tests with and without crossfades, but both have either resulted in shakey/jerky footage, or the program crashing saying 'send the dump file to Ulead for analysis.

Basically I perform smart proxy to shrink the files to make them smoother to edit, then when I try to render to .mov again, the footage is jerky, but then I can rerender to mpeg2. The problem is that the mpeg2 footage is only about 95% smooth. It will be flowing along then every 5-10 seconds there will be a jump. If I try to render straight to anything else - mpeg2, H.264, MPEG4, it just crashes after 3 seconds giving the same dump file message.

The files the camera produces are

1920x1080 quicktime (.mov)
25fps
48,000KHz, 16 bit, stereo

My hardware is

Sony Vaio laptop
Intel Duo Core 2.2ghz
Windows 7 home premium
64 bit
4GB Ram

Ulead version Pro X3

I have downloaded all the latest patches, and I downloaded the latest Directx (I'm not sure what this is, I just followed the link on the forum for the June 2010 one; is it an automatic thing?)

So I have a decent computer, and fantastic camera, and Ulead's top program - why can't I get a smooth end file??

[erdna]

Your Canon when set for 1080p, makes .mov files with a bitrate of 4.4 MB/s this is 35+Mb/s with I think is too much of the good for VSX3 to process, and for your Vaio computer to playback. I think you first need to downconvert first...

[stormcab]

I've just downloaded a trial version of Adobe Premiere 9, and it works! the transitions are totally smooth! I can now say it - Ulead Video studio has been nothing but a headache since I first started using it about 4 years ago from 9 to Pro X3. Hopefully Adobe is going to be my saviour from now on.

I will add however that even Premiere 9 can't give a smooth render to some of my previous cameras clips which are AVCHD.

[Ken Berry]

The AVCHD thing could imply your computer does not have enough resources to play/edit AVCHD, which is very demanding -- at least a decent Core 2 Duo, but preferably a Quad or higher. However, you haven't filled in your profile, so we don't know what you have.

[stormcab]

Right need to do that. but did put all my tech info in first question. I didn't think it had anything to do with your computer power, that computer power was just better for the editing process? i.e. that a slower computer would just take longer to render? I tried every trick I could think of with editing AVCHD - rendering it into various formats, or just converting individual clips into MPEG2 and working with them. It did render successfully into MPEG2 individual clips, but when they were edited with or without transitions - forget it, it would be jerky still. I don't think I have heard of anyone having any joy with AVCHD, I'm just glad I have got rid of the camera which uses the format before I gathered too much footage.

Thanks

[Ron P.]

Public demand drives the software makers. So when the hi-def calls were made, Corel was more than happy to oblige. However the hardware needs to catch up. It takes a lot to process such highly compressed formats. MPEG-2 used to be thought of as too compressed for any serious editing, and you risked out-of-sync problems, as well as loss of quality. Video files to be edited were DV (avi), and the distribution formats were MPEG, WMV, and then DivX comes along. People then decide they want to edit DivX, MPEG, and WMV, even though they were never intended to be edited. So companies like Corel, wrote programs that would allow that, and now we're at the stage where a super-highly compression scheme, AVCHD, being used to record video by cameras and camcorders, needs to be edited. Ever try wadding up a sheet of aluminum foil, into a tiny ball, then unwrapping it so it will look like it has not been? That's how I think of these codecs, they must wad up the video into a small ball, then unwrap it so that it's pristine. The formula used has to be very complex, and thus requires a tremendous amount of resources to compute this for hundreds of thousands of frames (pictures) at a time. If you have a photo editing program, like PSPP, launch it, then open photos that is.. let's say the equivalent to 5 minutes of video, which for the sake of simplicity is PAL (25fps).

25fps X 60 secs = 1500 per minute, X 5 = 7,500 photos. Now edit all those photos, apply effects, and see what happens to the program... Video is nothing more than photos, each frame is a single photo/image, that has motion/animation added to it at a given speed.

[Ken Berry]

Sorry about overlooking your computer specs!

However, I guess I still have one question about them. You describe the CPU as being "Intel Duo Core 2.2ghz". But do you mean it is a Core 2 Duo or a Dual Core? The two are of course quite different, with the latter being the predecessor of the former. And more to the point, a dual core is not up to the job of editing AVCHD except with SmartProxy. And playback of it would still be a bit erratic...

In fact, playing AVCHD back smoothly demands more computer resources than editing, as strange as that may seem...

[stelch]

The best thing to do is use Neoscene to convert your .mov files to avi. Works like a dream!!!
http://www.cineform.com/neoscene/

Stelios

[stormcab]

Ouch, $129! Oh well, if Adobe Premiere does happen to give me any trouble, I will look at the trial version of this - thanks.

[Trevor Andrew]

Some info on the Canon video files.
The canon D5 is high quality 21Mp Digital SLR image camera, with video capabilities.
I own a D7 a similar model.
It produces Quick Time Mov Files to PAL H.264 (1920x1080), interestingly when you right click a clip and select properties the compression details are not showing.

canon-h264.jpg (24.03 KiB) Viewed 5126 times

So I looked for an alternative render option………..Although this would depend on just what I was intending to make.
Choosing Share Create Video File does not give Same as First Clip as an option.

The custom Mov option does not give H264 as a compression choice, Is this just my installation? I was unable to create a template to the Canons video properties.
The nearest conversion option I found was Share Create Video File - BluRay Pal H 264. producing a Mpg file.

If I were intending to make a DVD I would probably batch convert the originals to DV-Avi.

Having said all that I don’t have problems playing or rendering these files, but have only used short clips so far.
Maybe I should give the cameras movie mode a good run.
Although I am put off a little with the cameras lack of continuous focus. It focuses once on start recording,
any object approaching the camera go out of focus, as I said its a Digital SLR image camera, with video capabilities.

[stormcab]

I'll give the convert to AVI a try, I never knew that MPEG, MOV, and AVCHD were just film modes, not intended for editing - it explains a lot - but Ulead and other programs allow for it to be edited only for it not to be smooth is beyond me. The autofocus issue was the thing that stopped me buying the 5D mkii last January, along with the no onboard stabilisation. But with lenses, and the fact that the BBC and film companies have actually shot programs and scenes with this camera, was enough to convince me to buy it. The focusing thing I actually like, because I did lose a few bits and pieces because the autofocus couldn't focus on several occasions. I am starting to get used to it, and the results are quite film like when you see a shot coming into focus while it has been recording. I use my stuff on the most part for family get togethers, for which there are about 1 a month, and the last couple I did were great because I can now switch between film and photo at the flick of a switch. I have been waiting for this point in technology for years.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi stormcab

The problem with editing High Definition is not just a software one but the pc’s capabilities. Basically you are looking for the fastest machine you can afford.
Video Studio uses Smart Proxy, you must ensure this is being used and that the proxy files have been created. There are so many video flavours available that its not surprising that some cause problems. AVI is not a video format but a container holding the video, DV-Avi (Digital Video)

I can play and edit the canon clips with no problem, given that I have only tried a few short clips, I’m confident in editing larger clips.

If you are intending to make a standard DVD then ultimately you have to convert to Mpeg2 (Pal DVD). This is the format in which the dvd is created.

Converting to DV-Avi first for editing may be the way to go, worth exploring both methods to see which gives best quality. Certainly editing DV-Avi is probably the easiest for VS to handlet:-

From File-Batch Convert-Add your clips
Choose Avi as the Save Type
Choose- Options button
AVI tab -- select DV Video Encoder -- type 1 (Notice the variety of compression types for Avi)
General tab for 16:9
Your template should look similar to:-

PAL (25 fps)
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 16:9 , 25 fps
Lower Field First
DV Video Encoder -- type 1
DV Audio -- PAL, 48.000 kHz, 16 Bit, Stereo

These files are 13 Gb per hour

As a test try converting a short clip.

[stormcab]

I won't be burning to DVD, i'll be creating HD files. If I want to watch the rendered footage I can do it on my HD laptop, or plug it into my HD TV via HDMI. it's got to a point now where there's almost no need to burn to DVD any more, even if family want to see it, because I can just upload the rendered clip to my Facebook or Youtube.

[stormcab]

I had just bought a copy of Adobe Premiere 9 then downloaded a trial version of Cineform - Whoops! I shouldn't have bothered with Adobe, I will just sell it on eBay. With the Cineform files I can edit them directly on the timeline without the need for proxy files. It's just annoying that Pro X3 costs less than a program that's sole purpose is to convert MOV and AVCHD files to editable ones?

Anyway, I am a happy bunny now, because I had lost the will to do any more editing because of the trouble I had with these two formats.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Stormcab

[aljimenez]

If you decide that converting is the best course of action, then these brilliant people are for you (both free)

http://www.koyotesoft.com/indexEn.html

http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html

When I started using AVCHD I found much of what you are encountering. With X2 I had to convert, with X3 I have to convert a lot less. But when I have to convert I use either of these.