From AVI film to DVD: best format?

[maxfrost01]

Hi,

I have no doubt this one's been asked many times before but my search of the forum is drawing a blank as all the key words are too common! Here we go......

I've been happily editing and burning DVDs from HDV film (mpeg2) for years but I'm now working on some AVI film. The film is long and my memory is short so, can an AVI user please tell me what format they burn their DVDs in so that a) people can play them and b) there is mimimal quality loss?

btw - when I show the final product to the group I'm planning to present from my laptop so I'm also wondering if there's a reccomended format for rendering a high quality file for playback on a computer. Presumably the best option would be to maintain the properties of the original film?

Thanks in advance

[GuyL]

AVI is just a wrapper for the video file. What are the properties of the clip you are workign with?

Unless the AVI is of inferior quality then you most likely can burn to DVD with the same settings you do for your other projects. If the AVI is below DVD quality to begin with then you may want to consider other settings.

[maxfrost01]

Hi, Guy

24 bits, 720 x 576. Is that what you needed to know?

What I usually do when burning a DVD is burn as mpeg2 files but then that's what I'm starting with when I'm woking in High Def.
I just figured that taking AVI to mpeg2 would not be a smart move and would mean significant quality loss.

The quality of the AVI footage is good though way inferior to the HD!

Thanks,

[GuyL]

I'd try encoding to MPEG2 at the same resolution as the AVI clip as that is DVD resolution (PAL) and see what it plays like. If you are in NTSC land well you'll have to convert to a different resolution (720x480).

This is assuming the data rate of the AVI is high enough to carry the quality over. If you right click on the file and choose properties you should also get a data rate.

[Ken Berry]

24 bits, 720 x 576

Yes, I'm afraid the above tells us nothing. As Guy has already said, .avi is merely a wrapper for more than 800 different formats of video, most of which are quite remarkably different from each other... Please right click on one of the relevant files within Video Studio -- either within the library window or in the timeline -- and copy ALL its properties here please.... I have the suspicion you are using one of the DivX/XVid/AVI formats which give good quality on playback, but which are highly compressed and not really meant to be edited, let alone rendered into another less compressed format (like the mpeg-2 which is the standard for DVDs...)

[maxfrost01]

Okay, here you go

File Format: Microsoft AVI files - OpenDML
Frame Rate: 25,000 frames/sec
Data Rate: 3404.87 kbps

Compression: DV Video Encoder - type 1
Attributes: 24 bits, 720 x 576, 16:9

Compression: DVD Audio - PAL
Attributes: 32,000 kHz, 12 Bit, Stereo

Does that cover it?

[Rob717]

When creating the video file in VideoStudio, use the PAL DVD template located under the Create Video File Format located under the share tab

[GuyL]

That data rate won't probably look too good when converted to DVD. It is worth a try though. Sometimes you get surprised.

[Ken Berry]

The good news is that DV/AVI is extremely high quality and easy to edit. Depending on how long the project, if you want to burn it to DVD for distribution, is to follow Rob's advice above. A video DVD requires mpeg-2 (part of the international DVD standard), so the DV has to be converted to mpeg-2 once editing is complete. If the project is an hour or less long, then simply do as Rob suggests and choose Share > Create Video File > DVD. This will convert the project into a DVD-compatible mpeg-2 which will be of high quality and will fit on a single layer DVD. You can then use this mpeg-2 in a burning engine to actually burn the disk.

If the project is longer than an hour, then you would need to reduce the data rate from the DVD default of 8000 kbps. If the project is, say, 90 minutes long, then you would need a data rate of around 6000 kbps, which will still give you good quality. (Share > Create Video File > Custom, and change the data rate down...) Or if the project is around 2 hours, the data rate would need to be reduced to around 4000 kbps, but with that, the quality will only be as good as VHS tape... Below that, and the quality falls off markedly.

As a footnote, if you took this DV video on your own mini DV camera, then I would look in the camera's menu and change the audio setting from 12 bit to 16 bit. That would be more standard and provide a bit better audio quality.

[maxfrost01]

Hi, all

Thanks for your support on this.

Guy - could you please explain your comment about the data rate? I'm sure you're right but what you say doesn't really help me! What's wrong with the data rate? How do I get a better data rate? What number would signify a better data rate? Is it a function of the camera or the editing or what?

If you could help me understand what's happening this time and how to make it better next time that would really make a difference.

Thanks,

[maxfrost01]

Hi, Ken

Thank you for your considered, informative and useful response. Seems to cover all the bases.

Sounds like with a data rate of 3405 kbps I am way below the default 8,000 kbps that you mention. I did shoot this footage on my old Standard Def camera - which is now 10 years old. Would your guess be that the low data rate is unavoidable in such an old video camera or that there may be settings on the camera that would give me a better data rate? My guess is the former! May be time to let it go............

Thanks,

[GuyL]

Hi, all

Thanks for your support on this.

Guy - could you please explain your comment about the data rate? I'm sure you're right but what you say doesn't really help me! What's wrong with the data rate? How do I get a better data rate? What number would signify a better data rate? Is it a function of the camera or the editing or what?

If you could help me understand what's happening this time and how to make it better next time that would really make a difference.

Thanks,

Ignore my comment. I didn't realise it was DV footage in the AVI wrapper. You will be fine. For some reason I thought it was DivX or something similar.

[Ken Berry]

And just to add to Guy's last response, you can't compare data rates for different formats of video. DV has completely different parameters from mpeg-2, so its apples and oranges when you are talking about their respective data rates. The DivX type of video that Guy mentioned is highly compressed mpeg-4, but also calls itself .avi, and its data rate is usually quite low, though the quality is high. However, it is more designed for playback, rather than editing.

And though your video might originally have been shot on an older analogue camcorder, it has obviously been captured in digital DV format somehow or other. And as I say, DV is possibly the best quality format to do such a capture in, and then edit. So everything should be fine...

[maxfrost01]

Hi, Ken

So it sounds like good news!

And though your video might originally have been shot on an older analogue camcorder, it has obviously been captured in digital DV format somehow or other. And as I say, DV is possibly the best quality format to do such a capture in, and then edit. So everything should be fine...

For my further enlightenment, is it likely that I did something dumb at data capture? I have my old camera here (Sony Handycam DCR-PC3E) and the original DV tapes I shot, so it would be relatively easy for me to try the capture again to see if that changed the data rate and gave me better quality video. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

[maxfrost01]

More thoughts and observations on the data rate.

I've just been checking through the properties of different pieces of the project I'm working on.
All were shot on the same camera using the same film. Conditions were different - some were low light indoors - some were outside in bright sunshine, but otherwise everything was the same.
What I notice is that all properties for all footage are identical (see earlier posting) EXCEPT the data rate. This varies from as low as 1829.97 kbps to as high as 3515.63 kbps.

I guess that what I'm asking is.......what determines the data rate?

Thanks,