Partial import of .mp4 video file into DVD Movie Factory 7SE

[qfieldboden]

Hi

I'm new here but have a problem. I'm using Video Studio Pro x3 which came with DVD Factory 2010 which was giving me an error message when I tried to use it. After much forum trawling I found that DVD MR 7 SE had been made available to solve this problem so downloaded and installed it, all went well.

Tried to produce a DVD from an .mp4 video file and for some reason only part of the file gets imported. The clip itself, produced using VSPx3, runs to about 14 minutes but when I import it into DVD MR 7 SE it shows as being only about 6:45 long and the latter part of the clip simply isn't there. I have a .divx version of the clip which I seem to be able to import into DVD MR 7 E but I would far rather inport the original .mp4 file.

Further information below:

SUBJECT: Please use a subject that describes your exact problem instead of making us guess what's in your post: See above.

Nature of the problem: See above.

Properties of your source files (format, file size, where did you get it?): .mp4, 1.4GB, generated using VSPx3.

What devices are involved and their mode of connection? None apart from hard wired DVD drive.

Project Settings: The project template properties used in VSPx3 to produce the file are as follows:

PAL (25 fps)
MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Lower Field First
(DVD-PAL), 16:9
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
LPCM Audio, 48000 Hz, Stereo

Output format (file, DVD, VCD, SVCD): DVD

PAL or NTSC: PAL

Error Codes (if any) : None.

Can anyone help? Am I just being stupid?

Thanks,

Quentin.

[DVDDoug]

Some MPEG-4 files can be "trouble".

..from an .mp4 video file ...The clip itself, produced using VSPx3,...

DVDs are MPEG-2, so try making an MPEG-2 file first (per your project settings) and then use that file with Movie Factory to make a DVD.

[Ken Berry]

Just pursuing Doug's suggestion a little further, was there any particular reason you produce this mp4 in that format using X3? Does your original project which produced that video still exist? If so, is it not still possible to open that project and choose Share > Create Video File > DVD and thus produce the mpeg-2 as suggested by Doug?

[qfieldboden]

Hi

Doug: Some MPEG-4 files can be "trouble".

Ken: Just pursuing Doug's suggestion a little further, was there any particular reason you produce this mp4 in that format using X3? Does your original project which produced that video still exist? If so, is it not still possible to open that project and choose Share > Create Video File > DVD and thus produce the mpeg-2 as suggested by Doug?

Thanks for the thoughts guys, I just didn't know that MP4s could be "trouble! I'll give this a go and report back. Would you always tend to create MP2s? Sorry but I don't know a whole lot about this, I'm learning.

Thanks,

Q

[Ken Berry]

If you intend to produce video DVDs, then the international standard for that is mpeg-2. Any other format must be converted to mpeg-2 before it can be burnt to DVD. So unless you intend to use your project for some other purpose, it would make sense to do it in mpeg-2 from the start.

[qfieldboden]

Hi

If you intend to produce video DVDs, then the international standard for that is mpeg-2. Any other format must be converted to mpeg-2 before it can be burnt to DVD. So unless you intend to use your project for some other purpose, it would make sense to do it in mpeg-2 from the start.

Thanks Ken, these things get taken for granted by folks who have known these things for ages, this is new information to me so many thanks!

Anyway, I edited my little test project as a .avi fileand then rendered it to an MP2 using the steps you suggestd above and lo and behold the video now inports into Movie Factory 7SE and I've ended up with a DVD that plays and works which is a big step for me! File ended up being around 1GB which came down to around 85MB when converted to a Divx movie which I can upload.

I'm sure I'll be back!

Thanks again.

Q

[Ken Berry]

It's all a learning experience. Just be aware that mpeg-4, including the avi types you appear to be using (DivX), is heavily compressed, which means that you get much smaller file sizes and still quite good quality. But you also need to be aware that if you then expand from mpeg-4/avi to mpeg-2 (which is less heavily compressed) you will lose a lot of quality. If you start off using mpeg-2 and use similar properties to the original throughout -- and then also use SmartRender -- you will maintain a (much) higher quality in the end DVD.

Another lesson is that mpeg-4/DivX and similar types of avi are really broadcast formats i.e. really only meant for playing back. You convert other formats to mpeg-4 as an end product, but normally you should avoid if at all possible converting mpeg-4/DivX to other less compressed formats.

[qfieldboden]

Hi

It's all a learning experience. Just be aware that mpeg-4, including the avi types you appear to be using (DivX), is heavily compressed, which means that you get much smaller file sizes and still quite good quality. But you also need to be aware that if you then expand from mpeg-4/avi to mpeg-2 (which is less heavily compressed) you will lose a lot of quality. If you start off using mpeg-2 and use similar properties to the original throughout -- and then also use SmartRender -- you will maintain a (much) higher quality in the end DVD.

Another lesson is that mpeg-4/DivX and similar types of avi are really broadcast formats i.e. really only meant for playing back. You convert other formats to mpeg-4 as an end product, but normally you should avoid if at all possible converting mpeg-4/DivX to other less compressed formats.

If only you knew how useful this simple concise explanation is to someone like me you would smile

Thanks again.

Q

[qfieldboden]

Hi

Ken said:

It's all a learning experience.

Indeed it is, and the lessons are hard and time-consuming! This is a bit off topic but the general process I am following is this:

1). Capture video on my (non HD) JVC Everio HDD - GZ-MG330HEK.
2). Edit the .MOD clips imported from the camera together using VSPx3. My edit file format is shown below:
NTSC non-drop frame (30 fps)
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 480, 30 fps
Lower Field First
Uncompressed
DV Audio -- PAL, 48.000 kHz, 16 Bit, Stereo
3). I then save the project.
4). I then go to "share" and "create video file". Here I choose "DVD" then "PAL DVD 16:9 Dolby Digital"
5). I then accept the MPEG optimiser setting as I don't know what else to do, the settings it renders with are shown below:
MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Upper Field First
(DVD-PAL), 16:9
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8900 kbps)
Audio data rate: 384 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio, 48 KHz, 2/0(L,R)
6). When the file has been created (about 1GB for 14 minute file) I import it into DVD Movie Factory 7 SE and when I get the message in the attached file I answer yes and the DVD is created.
7). If I want to upload the movie to YouTube I create a DivX file using the DivX converter from the file that was generated in step 5 above.

So, that's what I'm doing at the moment and I don't know whether this is good, bad, right, wrong, optimal or suboptimal and any pointers or suggestions for improvement would be greatly appreciated!

Edit: Sorry, meant to add this so that at least you can have an idea what kind of results I'm getting so far, after YouTube has done watever it does to things: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROJgY4JFPqw

Best regards,

Q

[Ken Berry]

I can see one problem immediately. MOD files are specific to JVC (and have a high definition equivalent .TOD). But they are in effect a slightly different type of mpeg-2 file. More to the point, VS X3 can handle them as they are -- i.e. with their .mod extension intact. One other thing is that they have a field order of Upper Field First.

A basic rule of video editing is that, as far as possible, you must always use the same Field Order throughout a project. In other words, if your video started life as Upper Field First, it should remain Upper Field First throughout the editing and burning process. This would suggest, in turn, that you simply open your original .mod file in X3, edit them, and convert them to a fully DVD-compliant mpeg-2 direct.

Instead, you are converting them first to a DV/AVI format. This is a good format, high quality -- though you would already be losing one generation of quality by converting from .mod to it. And each subsequent conversion to another format also involves a further loss of quality. Second, DV/AVI uses -- as you said in the Properties -- Lower Field First. In other words, you are inadvertently breaking the above rule about maintaining the same Field Order throughout a project. But the problem is that you cannot edit DV in anything except Lower Field First. And if you then render it to something else, but using Lower Field First, you will get various unwanted artifacts in the finished product, including what is called 'jaggies'. Those are broken or crooked lines in straight-sided objects -- not a good look at all. This occurs particularly noticeably in fast-moving, panning shots.

[qfieldboden]

Hi Ken

Egain extremely helpful and another golden rule I simply didn't know about, is there "bible" I can read on the subject that tells you the golden rules of video editing?

I can see one problem immediately. MOD files are specific to JVC (and have a high definition equivalent .TOD). But they are in effect a slightly different type of mpeg-2 file. More to the point, VS X3 can handle them as they are -- i.e. with their .mod extension intact. One other thing is that they have a field order of Upper Field First.
A basic rule of video editing is that, as far as possible, you must always use the same Field Order throughout a project. In other words, if your video started life as Upper Field First, it should remain Upper Field First throughout the editing and burning process. This would suggest, in turn, that you simply open your original .mod file in X3, edit them, and convert them to a fully DVD-compliant mpeg-2 direct.

Ok, in practice in VSPx3 how do I do this? I can import the .MOD files into the timeline without any problems which is what I do but in project properties the edit file format is either AVI or MPEG and I'm not sure now what I should have this set on as based on what you say above I'd have expected an option of "original" or something like that? Are you saying I should change this to MPEG and upper field first so that the project template properties box ends up reading something like this?:
PAL (25 fps)
MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Upper Field First
(DVD-PAL), 16:9
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
LPCM Audio, 48000 Hz, Stereo

Also, what would you suggest as an apropriate setting for the compression? So far it's been at about 75% (default, I haven't changed it so far) but I'm guessing maybe I should change this up to 100% and bear the speed cost in favour of quality?

Instead, you are converting them first to a DV/AVI format. This is a good format, high quality -- though you would already be losing one generation of quality by converting from .mod to it. And each subsequent conversion to another format also involves a further loss of quality. Second, DV/AVI uses -- as you said in the Properties -- Lower Field First. In other words, you are inadvertently breaking the above rule about maintaining the same Field Order throughout a project. But the problem is that you cannot edit DV in anything except Lower Field First. And if you then render it to something else, but using Lower Field First, you will get various unwanted artifacts in the finished product, including what is called 'jaggies'. Those are broken or crooked lines in straight-sided objects -- not a good look at all. This occurs particularly noticeably in fast-moving, panning shots.

I think this is VERY slowly starting to make a bit of sense to me, I very much appreciate your help. Are you happy to keep answering my queries, I try to search the forums first but can't always find answers as I'm at a very basic level I'm afraid, as you can see

Quentin.