clip play degraded in Windows 7

[orpioneer]

The saga of getting VS X2 to work as well in Windows 7 as it did in XP continues. Right now I'm trying to figure out why the playback quality of the clips is so much poorer than it was when I was running X2 on my much less powerful XP machine. These clips are exactly the same clips AVI clips (downloaded via firewire from my Panasonic DV camcorder) that I had used previously in XP. What I am seeing now though, is that when I play the clips, any kind of motion in the clip breaks into horizontal lines. It's painful to watch. These same clips had played cleanly on my previous machine. These clip properties are all as follows:

Microsoft AVI files -- OpenDML
Frame rate 29.97 frames/sec
Data rate 3512.11 kbps
Compression: DV Video Encoder -- type 1
24 bits, 720x480

If I pull the clip into the timeline and look at its project properties I see:

NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 480, 4:3, 29.97 fps
Lower Field First
DV Video Encoder -- type 1
DV Audio -- NTSC, 48.000 kHz, 16 Bit, Stereo

(I should note that both updates have been applied to X2, and I have the most recent version of Windows Media Player, DirectX, Quicktime, and FlashPlayer)


Here are some things I did to investigate the problem.

1. Playing around with the project settings for these clips I find that:
a. Played in clip mode, any motion in the video breaks into horizontal lines.
b. In project mode and with Playback preferences set to high quality playback, any motion in the video still breaks into horizontal lines.
c. In project mode with Playback preferences set to instant playback the video is now smooth, though the resolution is greatly reduced.

2. I played with other settings in Preferences:
a. Turning off "apply color filer" -- no effect
b. Turning off "Apply anti-flickering filter in image clips" - no effect
c. Turn off "Enable Smart Proxy" -- no effect
d. Changed resampling quality from Best to Good. -- no effect

3. I've also looked at a few clips that came from other sources to see if they had the same problem:
a. There was a high resolution (1280x720) wmv clip (came with the computer) that plays with amazing clarity, there is no distortion in clip or project mode.
b. Some sample video files (that came with VideoStudio 10) are avi files and for the most part they play fine in clip mode. In project mode they play at a lower resolution but still play smoothly. I looked at the clip properties to see how they differed from mine and the only difference was that they all had lower data rates than mine, and their compression was Indeo video 5.10. For example the properties of one sample clip were as follows:
Microsoft AVI files -- OpenDML
Frame rate: 29.97 frames/sec
compression: Indeo video 5.10
Date rate 815.05 kbps
24 bits, 720x480

c. A few sample clips that came with VS X2 were coded simply as Microsoft AVI files (no OpenDML) and these clips did show a tendency to break into horizontal lines when, though they didn't seem as bad as my own clips. Properties for one of these clips were:
microsoft AVI files
Frame rate: 29.97 frames/sec
compression: Indeo video 5.10
Date rate 1014.53 kbps
24 bits, 720x480

d.Some sample files that came with VS X2 were mpeg files, and they play smoothly though the resolution is quite low compared to avi files.

4. My monitor is a Samsung Syncmaster P2350. Display information given is a SyncMaster P2350(G)/P23500(G),Magic P2350G(Digital). The monitor screen resolution is set at 1920x1080. I looked for information in the display settings that suggested it might have a grudge against avi files but nothing jumped out at me.

So I've tried pretty much everything I can think to try. Given that my clips played well on my previous machine I think it must be possible to get them to play well on this more powerful machine, and I am hoping that someone will have a suggestion for a setting, or codec that I am missing.

[Ron P.]

I don't have any solutions. Could you clarify what you mean by

Played in clip mode, any motion in the video breaks into horizontal lines.

This may be occurring due to your monitor resolution being so much larger than the SD video (720 x 480). I've used the example of using the Share>Project Playback. It looks as though it is not playing the video at full size/resolution, since it is framed in the center of your monitor screen. However it is playing at the video/project settings resolution. I use a Dell 19" monitor, the resolution setting of 1440 x 900, on my WinXP machine. When I view clips using the Enlarge button beneath the preview playback screen, the clips look very pixelated. Clip mode is a little clearer than Project Mode. However using the Share>Project Playback, it is clear.

One other thing to look at since you're using a newer PC, is your Video Drivers. Check to see if they may have released any updates, patches for it. Since the video appeared better on your old XP machine, that maybe due to all the hardware being up to date as far as they could go. When new OS's, and new technology is released, it takes some time for things to catch up.

[Accolades]

THE BEST WAY OF GETTING X2 TO WORK IN WIN 7 WOULD BE TO UPGRADE TO X3 !!

[orpioneer]

Accolade, well I do plan to upgrade to X3 eventually, but it sounds like people on this board are having a tremendous number of problems with X3, so I'm leery of doing so until more of those are worked out. Plus, if I go to a new OS, new computer, and a new version of the program, all at the same time it's harder to tell where the problems are originating. In this case I already know X2 can work with my video so it's down to being some kind of presumably fixable problem with the interface between it and my system or Windows 7. If I can get X2 running smoothly again then it will be a smoother transition to X3 (and hopefully a few more X3 bugs will be worked out by then too).

Ron, it's possible that what I'm calling breaking into horizontal lines, is the a jagged video image that people complain about when they are having field order problems. To me, it looks as though the edges of the moving objects split into visible horizontal lines. The faster the object is moving the more broken up it becomes. A dog's wagging tail is nothing more than a stack of lines. It is most noticeable during horizontal motion and panning. Vertical motion and zooming do not seem to trigger it as much. This all sounds much like the descriptions I've seen on here of what happens when field order is changed during rendering, but this is just happening when I play my clips, nothing has been done to them that should cause the field order to change. Does this suggest anything to you?

I had not tried viewing my clips in Enlarge, at present the preview screen takes up maybe a 1/6 of the screen space. So it's a little bigger than it appeared on my former screen, but not hugely so. After I got your e-mail I tried watching the clip in Enlarge and it behaved exactly as it had in in the reduced size, both in clip and project mode. I also gave your suggestion a try about going to share/project playback. It played the clip in the middle of my screen as you described but motion in the clip still had the problem of breaking into lines. The video drivers were updated with the very latest versions via the internet when the computer was set up last week, but it's possible that new and better ones will come out.

[Ron P.]

You stated that you have some .avi files and MPEG files that came with VS X2. What version of VS X2, standard, Pro or Ultimate? I have both the Ultimate and Pro versions and both only included WMV sample files. At any rate, the Win7 patch does work for the Standard version too. I was thinking that it didn't, and checked Corel's site finding that it is included.

The other older files that are using the old Indeo-Ligos codec, wouldn't be of any concern or comparison to the problem you're having. The data rate for your DV file is correct. I checked several of my DV video files, finding the same data-rate. Just one more note on this, I tried inserting one of those old files into VS X2 on my laptop running Vista HP, and found that I could not, because I don't have the Indeo codec installed on it, and the reason why;

PLEASE NOTE: Indeo is not supported for use with Microsoft’s “Vista” or “Windows 7″, or any Apple Mac operating systems. In addition, some Indeo-dependent applications may not work at all on those OSes, and Ligos is unable to provide a solution.

Since this was not a problem with your XP machine, and it materialized with your new system ( ), I think that there is something not working correctly with it. It should play DV without a problem.

Out of curiosity, could you try to transfer a short clip from your camcorder, the same if possible. However this time instead of using DV Type-1, change it to Type-2. The reason is that Type-2 DV is backward compatible for Video For Windows, and it has separate streams for the video and audio. DV Type-1 the video is interleaved, and must use the DV Muxer and DV Splitter filters of Direct Show. Just thinking Win7 might handle Type-2 better than Type-1. Just something to try.

When you installed VS X2, did you have any errors or problems? You might have to try to do a repair or complete reinstall. I know it's not what people like to hear. But if you have not imported hundreds of clips into the libraries, then there really is nothing to worry about loosing. If so, just back those up to some other place on your system. Repairing or reinstalling might correct a corrupted file that either didn't get installed or corrupted in the process.

[Ron P.]

THE BEST WAY OF GETTING X2 TO WORK IN WIN 7 WOULD BE TO UPGRADE TO X3 !!

Nope, not so much the best way, unless you're a salesman. Besides that, he's not even working with a highly compressed video file, just good old DV. An old Pent-3 would be able to handle DV.

[orpioneer]

Ron,

It will be a little while before I can give these suggestions a try (crashing on a deadline at work right now) but I greatly appreciate your input on this--and do let me know if any more ideas occur to you. My version of X2 is the Pro version by the way. I did reinstall it once already, not because I had problems with it but because the I thought it might be responsible for some problems I had with Windows sleep mode after it was installed. Except for this issue X2 has behaved fine so far, though I haven't gotten very far in my testing of it. (I have actually now spent a lot of time reinstalling libraries and smartsound files though :-C.)

Funny, the indeo compressed files are the ones that seem to run without distortion on the new machine, but I guess if that codec is no longer supported then updating it is NOT the solution to my problems...

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi orpioneer

Interesting problem.
DV-Avi is probably the easiest of formats to work with, so its surprising you having these issues.

Do the captured DV-Avi play ok with other media players or do you see the same problems?
If the same problem then it rules out Video Studio, except for capture….

Have you tried capturing using Win DV? that’s if the program is compatible with Windows 7 (view the forums Free Stuff http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=12931 )

Have you installed the software that came with the camera? just in case it provides you with extra codec’s.