Some chapter entry frame numbers exceed the total frames

[davebrannigan]

I have used earlier versions of VS in the past with virtually no issues , last version wbeing VS11 Plus. I recently "Upgraded" to VS Pro X2 and am trying to burn my first project with it. I'm having some issues. During the share stage, trying to make a DVD I get the message "Some chapter entry frame numbers exceed the total frames" and NO I did not edit the project after adding the chapters in the share stage. Seems from google searches that this is an old issue for which Ulead issued a patch in earlier versions, but it is back! One post suggested creating a video file of the whole project then importing that without creating a new project then sharing it and adding chapters. I tried that and found that the audio for the second half of the project got dropped. If you press Info on the DVD player it displays Dolby 3/2 on the TV screen, but the AVamp shows no Blue Dolby multichannel light and detects no audio streams available. This dropping of audio occurs at a transition between two clips in the original project. The "missing" audio is present in the mpeg file created, and you can hear it if you play the file in the "Edit" tab. It simply does not get carried over to the disc burn. I tried twice. ANyway, that is a secondary issue and I'm not too bothered about that. I would much rather get a fix for the Chapter frame numbers issue and thus avoid the video file creation process.

I have tried taking a few frames out of each clip and re-rendering the whole project again to no avail. I have also tried deselecting two pass conversion as some posts have suggested. Corel have given up with helping me by e-mail and want to charge me to get phone support. I am tempted to go for a refund and go back to 11 plus. Not really an "Upgrade" in my opinion.

Any advice gratefully received.

Dave

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Dave

Welcome to the forum

The original workflow was to create a video file first, then use the single file to burn a dvd, using a project in the burner module just caused so many problems.
The later versions of Video Studio coped better with this process, but even today Corel recommend creating the video file if you have problems with the project approach.
Which ever approach you take a MPEG 2 file has to be created to burn a DVD.

If Share Create Video File is giving problems then its probably something amiss with the timeline content, especially when you experience audio problems using DD 5.1.

You say “This dropping of audio occurs at a transition between two clips in the original project”

Can you tell us just what you have used in the timeline along with their properties.?

[davebrannigan]

Trevor, Thank you for your quick reply.

After having had opportunity to experiment some more it would appear that my fault analyis was not 100% accurate. Where I thought that the audio dropped at points where new chapters had been inserted this was not thr case. What I had seen was that during teh latter part of teh disc, if I skipped chapters the strat of teh chapter would exhibit the silent film I mentioned, but since then, after palying some more I have found that if I allow play to continue after a few minutes the audio returns. If I rewind, some sections that were once silent do actually play. Very strange. I have also seen that in one part the image continues to play despite the fact that the time counter stops incrementing and then in another part the counter increments, but the picture freezes. All very strange. The early half of the disc (DVD4.7 thus not dual layer)is robust.

I don't know if it is relevant, but this is the first project I have made where material of both 4:3 and 16:9 has been included with the intent of exporting it all in 16:9. I have subsequently tried exporting it in 4:3 format and can report that the error relating to chapter entry frame numbers goes away, and the disc burns, however the audio issue still exists and some of the media appears squashed vertically when viewed on a widescreen TV. Hardly ideal. The VS manual states that, "Video will be adjusted to the correct aspect ratio...and automatically letterboxed or pillarboxed to fit the correct aspect ratio.

I don't know if I am dealing with more than one issue here, but never had any issues with chapters or audio in DD5.1 in VS11 Plus.

I typed this response all up earlier and tried to attach my project file (12Mb) and the forum page crashed losing all my input so I've had to retype it again. Hope I have not missed anything out. I will not try attaching the project file again unless requested.

Thanks for your help so far,

Dave

[DVDDoug]

I don't know if it is relevant, but this is the first project I have made where material of both 4:3 and 16:9 has been included with the intent of exporting it all in 16:9.

I don't think you mentioned the original compression format (MPEG-2?, AVI/DV?, etc.). There's probably something "funny" about one or more of your input files.

Here's something you can try - Open all of your clips and save them one at at time, all in the same exact DVD-compatible MPEG-2 format (and all in 16x9 with the same audio format).

Assuming this works, and they all have audio, you should have less trouble editing them together. If your input files are already MPEG-2, it might help to save at a slightly lower bitrate in order to "force" a re-encode*. If this doesn't work... If one of the clips ends-up without audio or otherwise "corrupted", we can work on that.

The "chapters" shouldn't be a problem. On a DVD, the chapters are just "markers" or "places" in the file. However, if your chapters each came from different original clips, that's a different story.

.. however the audio issue still exists and some of the media appears squashed vertically when viewed on a widescreen TV...

.... "Video will be adjusted to the correct aspect ratio...and automatically letterboxed or pillarboxed to fit the correct aspect ratio.

I'm not sure why that's not working. All the video on the DVD needs to be in the same aspect ratio.** So, your fullscreen video needs to be pillerboxed (either manually or automatically) before it's burned on the DVD.

Corel have given up with helping me by e-mail and want to charge me to get phone support.

That's one way to get rid of pesky customers. Do you think the phone guy really knows more than the email guy?



* It's generally considered bad practice to re-encode (or transcode between) lossy formats, because you can loose quality. But, sometimes it's the best way to "repair" a file.

** If I remember correctly, all of the video in one VTS (Video Title Set) is supposed to have the same aspect ratio, and I think Video Studio can only make DVDs with one VTS.

[davebrannigan]

Hello Doug / Trevor. Again thanks for your reply. I must admit I have a lot on at present so if I am slow to respond it is not that I am being agnorrant, just busy.

I have looked at my project and can tell you it is made up of a Standard Intro clip I have used for years which according to teh clip properties in teh timeline view is an MPEG 2 720 x 576 4:3 format clip. That's followed by a large avi file (Type 2) which I had captured from tape some time ago and then exported as an avi file for future use so as not to loose any quality during editing. Not sure whether VS automatically selects type 2 when exporting to an Avi file as I would normally always select type 1 but type 2 it is? Sadly it is not this clip I am having audio issues with though. That clip also reports 720 x 576 4:3 when I view properties of it in the timeline. There is then, a bunch more avi's captured more recently as type 1. Interestingly these are alsol reported as being 720 x 576 but of 16:9 format - not 4:3. How can they all be 720 x 576 if they are fifferent aspect ratios? Is it because I have selected 16:9 in the project properties setup?

I try to avoid using MPeg 2 format until after all teh editing is done hence why all my capturing is to Avi. I used to have lipsync issues in earlier versions of VS using type 2 so I always use type 1 now. Only my Standard intro is in MPEG 2 and I never re-edit that.

I understand that the chapters are only markers, but that did not stop them playing up when I was exporting in 16:9 aspect ratio. I have a horrid feeling that issue is going to come back next time i want to create a 16:9 disc.

I think as you suggest I will try saving all the files to MPeg then recombining them and see what happens though this will take me some time. I'll have to redo titles and any overlapping audio etc. I may also just go back and recapture in case something weird happened to one of the clips during the capture phase. Both will take time though the second will mean more re-editing to do.

I'll repost once I have done this.

Cheers for now.

Dave

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Dave

Video aspect ratio

For Pal the frame size is 720 x 576, use a calculator and notice this is not 4:3.
The video does not use square pixels, the pixels are stretched to fit the frame aspect of 4:3

Same occurs for 16:9 Widescreen, the video still uses 720 x 576, think of then as being rectangular, like a house brick.
The process is called Non Square Pixel Rendering…………

You do not say what type of camera or how you are capturing.
If it’s a Mini-DV, then you connect to pc via firewire, choose DV as the capture format.
Select the options cogwheel to select the DV-Type 1.
There is no re-coding during capture, what you have on the camera is what you get. DV-Avi including the correct aspect ratio 4:3 or 16:9 that the camera recorded to.

However if the capture is analogue you can choose AVI as the capture format, the video is re-coded to the settings under the options cogwheel, set by you.

DVD files
The files on a DVD are for all intents and purposes MPEG 2. although they use .VOB as their extension.
At some point your project has to be converted in to an Mpeg 2 video file in order to burn the disc.

1 / This can be done by Share Create Video File choosing Pal DVD.
Using the new file to burn a DVD.

2 / if you Share Create Disc, basically adding the project to the burner module.
After pressing the Burn button -- The first process will convert the title (project) to an Mpeg 2 file, Saved to temp’ folders called Create and Burn, the Mpeg 2 file is then used to burn the DVD.
The settings under the options cogwheel being used to create the file.

Corel recommend the first approach when having problems with the second.
I’ve always used the first method.

[davebrannigan]

Thank you Trevor.

I now better understand the meaning of non square pixel rendering. Very handy.

All the captured video was captured by selecting DV type 1 in the capture settings from a DV camcorder.

I tried Doug's idea of converting all the clips (22 of them) individually to mpeg 2 16:9 format then recompiling them. Quite tendious, but the end result has been a disc which plays fine with intact audio. The only problem being I forgot to modify the audio levels so I need to go back and have another go. I am hopeful.

I really hope that my next project will go a bit smoother as to have to do this is a nonsense when the program supposidly supports conversion directly from project in any format to output to disc. As I said the earlier version worked without a hitch.

Thanks for your help, and I'll let you know how I get on finalizing this project and with my next.

Dave

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Dave

DV-Avi is probably the best and easiest format to edit. At least VS thinks so.

I would suggest you convert the High Definition video to standard definition.
DV-Avi is a good choice as you are already using this format.

You would then edit the project using Dv-Avi then Share Create Video File – Pal DVD.
This would create a video file Mpeg2 suitable for creating a DVD.

The only thing to watch would be the Frame Order.
The HD uses either Upper Field or Frame Based whereas Dv-Avi defiantly uses Lower Field.
Mixing frame orders may result in quality issues on some of the video.

You haven’t given any details of your video clips, especially the HD one, right click a clip and select properties, what are they? At least you will see the frame order.

Batch Convert

This is available from Video Studio-Tools menu, you add your video files, then select the convert “options” and a save location. Quick cup of tea and job done….well nearly.

Tip:-
Set the project properties to the settings required before opening Batch Convert. Then Choose the Save as Type, edit/check the convert settings under the Options button.

[davebrannigan]

Trevor, I am not sure where the HD idea came into it. I have no HD content and don't think I eluded to having used any?

I always capture to DV AVI (Type 1) then share to DVD format, thus maintaining best quality until the output stage, however as I said it did not work in this case on three levels. a) the sound issues, b) the format issues (Video getting squashed) and c) the stuttering video/ time counter issue which made no sense.

Rather than tell you what each and every one of teh 22 clip's properties were it would be easier to simply send you my project file. I assume that such details are contained therein? It's about 12Mb though. Do you want it?

As I said in my last post. Doug's suggestion of converting each clip individually to an MPEG after editing then reimporting all those back into the timeline prior to sharing seems to have worked. It is a real pain though and not what it says you need to do on the tin.

Corel claim the application can import a multitude of formats and export them to a multitude of formats. This sis simply not the case.

Cheers

Dave

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Dave

First of all the project VSP file is of no use without the actual video files.
It will show the content but only the location on the hard drive.

Capturing to DV-Avi is the best method, it actually transfers the video from camera to pc, no re-coding, so what you have is what you get DV-Avi.

The video that is showing as “getting squashed” would be a good one to look at.
Cos as mentioned with DV-Avi you get what’s in the camera. ( i assume you capture using Firewire)
So if all video is from the same camera why the change in aspect ratio?

I did mention Batch Convert which completes the job in one go, and would not be as you say “It is a real pain though and not what it says you need to do on the tin.”

Apologies for any confusion regarding HD video, must have been a senior moment.

[jcsaba]

Hi
As Dave Brannigan, I also upgraded to Corel VSX2 after successful usage of VS11 sevaral times. At the very end of the burning process of my first project in VSX2, I also bumped into the problem "Some chapter entry frame numbers exceed the total frames" as it appeared at the end of the burning process. I followed the straight Create Disc workflow which I had successfully used several times in VS11. The video is captured from a Panasonic DV camera supplemented with some photos. Is there any idea how to cope with this problem apart form taking the suggested workflow of Creating MPEG 2 Video File and then authoring?
Thanks

[Black Lab]

Is there any idea how to cope with this problem apart form taking the suggested workflow of Creating MPEG 2 Video File and then authoring?

That is how you cope with the problem.

I don't understand why so many people balk at creating a video file first. Is it because they think it is an extra step, or will take longer? In fact, when you go straight from your project to "create disc", VS has to create that very same video file before it can start the burning phase. This process has sometimes caused people problems. Could be the complexity of the project, the limited resources of their pc, who knows. But we do know that by creating that video file separately, and then letting VS worry only about the burning phase, do many of these problems disappear.

So give it a go and see what happens.

[Ken Berry]

And in addition to the points BlackLab has made, you don't lose any time doing it "our" way. The conversion is still going to take as long in the burning phase as it would in the editing phase.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

I totally agree with the comments here.

Maybe we are just old timers when it comes to video editing.
I remember the time when you couldn’t add the project to the burner module, I’m going back to VS 5. but you had to complete your project by creating a video file.
Then add the video file to the authoring module via a tab called “Finish”

Now we have come full circle, if you upgrade to X3 that’s exactly what you have to do. Create a Video File.

The added advantage of creating a video file, you can play the completed Mpeg as a separate video, outside Video Studio if you wished.
Pleased with the result you can burn a disc knowing you are gonna get that quality. There is no further re-coding.

The only difference is it’s a two stage process.

Any how as mentioned if you upgrade to X3 you will have to create the video file first.

Known as the Recommended Procedure, or do it the old way.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi
Is there any idea how to cope with this problem apart form taking the suggested workflow of Creating MPEG 2 Video File and then authoring?
Thanks

If you added chapters in the edit timelines then remove them.
Add the chapters in the burner module.