audio codec(?) driver(?) problem with bizarre history

[UncleBoo]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum, so please be gentle! I have searched the Corel knowledge base and forum contents before posting.

I used to be able to, but no longer can, get audio when I capture DV video. I suspect it is an audio codec or driver problem, but I don't have a clue how it appeared nor how to fix it. the problem started with VS11 Update but has continued to X3.

Brief history:
Phase 1. Using stock VS 11, I was able to capture DV just fine, including audio. I captured multiple DV tapes (Sony Hi-8), edited projects, and burned DVDs with no problem.
Phase 2. Hoping to extend the life of no-longer-supported VS 11, I found and installed an update from the official ulead/corel website. At this point I found that newly captured DV had no audio. But older files, captured using stock VS 11, still had (and still do have) audio!
Phase 3. Hoping it would fix the problem, I uninstalled VS 11, and then bought, downloaded and installed X3 from the corel website two days ago. But the problem persists: no audio from newly captured DV.
Phase 4. Based on Corel knowledge base, I downloaded and installed K-Lite. It did not fix the problem. I have since uninstalled K-Lite.
Phase 5. Although I really want to stick with X3, just to be a good detective I downloaded a trial version of a competitor's product to see if it fixed the problem, but it did not. So it seems clear the problem is not specific to any individual video software product.

It would seem to be a codec or driver problem, but if so, wouldn't it be odd that the older captured files still have audio?
If it's a codec problem, wouldn't X3 include all needed codecs anyway?

In any case, how do I fix this? Do I have to go back and reinstall Windows XP from the ground up?

BTW, I'm a moderately tech-savvy user. Translation: I have a rudimentary understanding of codecs, and could install K-Lite but found the array of configuration options overwhelming.

TIA,
UncleBoo

P.S. My father-in-law is eagerly awaiting DVDs of his old tapes that I confidently promised I could produce!

[Ken Berry]

Welcome to the forums... That is really bizarre! The audio that goes with DV is bog-standard PCM and the codec which drives it comes as part of Windows, not VS or anything else. As you are probably aware, Windows Movie Maker also captures DV...

You don't actually say how you captured the DV since it started life as Hi-8, but I am assuming you are using either a Sony Digital 8 camcorder to play the Hi-8 directly via Firewire or as a passthrough device; or else a DV capture device; or a mini DV camcorder being used as a passthrough device. But it would be useful to know which method you are using. (I have a corollary interest since you say you can actually capture the video using X3, whereas 99% of us *cannot* capture more than 8 seconds when trying to capture DV for an originally analogue source...)

In the meantime, the only thing I can think of is that it could have something to do with the Type of DV you are capturing, which in turn could be linked to your computer's architecture. DV comes in two flavours: Type 1 and Type 2. Video Studio appears to like Type 1 (where video and audio are captured in a single stream); whereas more professional end editors tend to capture Type 2 (where the video and audio are captured in separate streams, though still in just one video file. So you might want to change the Option next time you set up to capture DV.

[UncleBoo]

Hi ken,

Thanks for the quick response!

First, let me clarify the config:
- Sony Digital 8, connected to USB (I tried firewire, it did not work)
- content on Hi-8 tapes, not my originals, I don't know if they're digital or analogue!
- data input as DV Type 2; X3 doesn't give me any other option! I would happily try Type 1 if I could, but...

Second, let me add to the mystery. The very same tapes that I was able to capture WITH audio when using VS11, do NOT capture audio when using any of the following:
- VS11 w/update (VS11.5?)
- X3
- CyberLink Power Director trial
which is why I suspect that installing the VS11 update somehow broke something.

BTW, I can definitely capture more than 8 seconds with X3, albeit without audio, as noted.

[Ron P.]

Since you're OS is WinXP, try capturing via Firewire using this free capture program WinDV. You can download it from the following link:
http://windv.mourek.cz/ It uses Firewire only, and will only capture to DV. If you're not able to, or still do not have sound, then you have a system/hardware problem.

[Ken Berry]

I agree with Ron -- you absolutely must try capturing in DV via Firewire. That what Firewire was invented for. The fact is that Corel broke it somehow from VS 11 onwards. But as Ron suggested -- and both he and I have Sony Digital 8s so we know, and share, your concern -- you need to use a program like Win DV.

And for the record, Hi-8 is most definitely analogue. Putting it in the Digital 8 plays it, and can be captured into digital DV (Digital Video) format via firewire.

And don't get your knickers in a knot about not being able to capture via Firewire with VS. A lot of us use a whole varety of other programs to do all sorts of things during the editing and burning process. The trick is to first capture -- and if another program will do just that, then use it -- then open the captured files in VS to edit.

The reason that you can capture more than 8 seconds is that you are not using Firewire, and without that, regardless of what you think you are capturing, it is most definitely not DV.

The really worrying feature is that you say that Cyberlink also cannot capture audio -- I am assuming you were using Firewire? Or were you? But if you were, then there is a hardware, not software problem. And if you think that installing VS11 broke something and it is causing other programs to capture the same video also without audio, then you had better think again. WinDV will most definitely capture both video and audio via firewire. And if it does not, then you have something more serious going on...

[UncleBoo]

Ron and Ken,

You are both lifesavers!

1st, I just tried WinDV, and it works like a charm: I'm capturing .avi with both video and audio, inserted into an X3 project with no problems. I'm back in business, and I'm grateful for your help.

2nd, thanks for clarifying that all the video I've "inherited" is analogue. As long as I can import, edit, and get it onto DVDs, it doesn't matter to me what source I have, but it is nice to know and the knowledge may come in handy in the future.

3rd, it's disappointing to learn that X3 has firewire problems, but as long as there's a workaround, my knickers will stay untwisted. I assume the Corel folks are will aware of the problem. I also assume that for all X3's warts, since you guys are still here, you have concluded it's still the best thing going. Correct?

4th, Ken you said "A lot of us use a whole variety of other programs to do all sorts of things during the editing and burning process." Is there a FAQ that has compiled a list of those programs and their uses? Any pointer(s) you can provide will be much appreciated.

FInally, just to clarify, I tried Cyberlink using USB, not firewire. At some point, to satisfy my curiosity, I'll try it with firewire, What i guess will remain a mystery is why I was able to capture several hours of video/audio via USB using X11, then after the 11.5 update lost all ability to capture audio via USB with any and all software. I do know enough about the OS to be dangerous, and it's entirely possible that I did something to my system that just happened to coincide with the 11.5 update. But, as I said, it will have to remain a mystery.

The only downside to getting everything working again is that I started working on the "boss", and she was about to agree to a new system - I could almost touch that i5 with 6GB!

Thanks so much,
Brian aka UncleBoo

[Black Lab]

it's disappointing to learn that X3 has firewire problems

Just to clarify, X3 has NO problems capturing via firewire. It's all I do. What X3, and some prior versions, do have a problem with is capturing analog. Even an analog tape thru a digital cam, as was your case, can be problematic.

[UncleBoo]

it's disappointing to learn that X3 has firewire problems

Just to clarify, X3 has NO problems capturing via firewire. It's all I do. What X3, and some prior versions, do have a problem with is capturing analog. Even an analog tape thru a digital cam, as was your case, can be problematic.

Ah, important clarification. Thanks.

You Big Three are the greatest. If I ever have the pleasure of meeting you, the beverages are on me.

UncleBoo

[Black Lab]

Hey, when do you want to meet?!

[Ken Berry]

Glad it worked!

As for your question about other programs, there is a whole universe of video editing programs out there. Those I tend to use the most are the following:

1) For titles, I use mostly either Xara 3D or Bluff Titler, though I sometimes still use Cool 3D Production Studio (though it is incredibly slow to render...)
2) For transitions, I mostly use the inbuilt ones in VS, but occasionally use CanopusFX and ProDAD Adorage.
3) For Audio editing, I mostly use the Nero audio editing, but increasingly I am using the freeware Audacity
4) For background music, I use the big brother of the SmartSound QuickTracks which comes with VS. That is called SonicFire Pro. But the discs are expensive -- be warned.
5) For burning standard def DVDs, I usually burn a DVD Folder instead of a disc, and then use Nero BurningROM to burn to an actual disc. For AVCHD hybrid discs, I use the in-built burning module in VS X2 (never the original one which came with X3) and also Corel's Movie Factory 7 Pro (an SE version is now available to registered users of X3),

As I say, there is a huge number of ancillary programs out there, and each user will have their own favourites.

Good luck -- and on that i5 as well!!

[UncleBoo]

Hi Gents,

Well, I spoke a tad too soon. Yes, WindDV is importing fine, but my brief tests did not take into account that because WinDV is importing in AVI format, the files are much bigger. And since I'm running WinXP 32-bit, well, you see where I'm going. Max file size is about 2.7GB, which means WinDV has no choice but to create a new file every 13 minutes! Not an ideal situation for 60 minutes of material...

As I write this I'm importing a tape into the Boss' MacBook, but I don't think I'm going to be happy with iMovie. So unless there's a workaround on my PC that I'm not considering, it seems my only options are to install Win7 64-bit on my existing computer (and risk trashing everything on the disk in the process), or, if I'm going to have to reinstall everything anyway, that i5 looms larger.

Ken, thanks for the info on the 3rd party apps.

Jeff, don't know when I'll make it to PA, but if you're ever in the Bay Area, be sure to let me know! We've got a lot of great local suds around here.

[Ken Berry]

Sorry I didn't think about file limits with XP... but that's because I inevitably use WinDV (and indeed VS) to capture by scene. That creates a lot of smaller files, yes, but I prefer that rather than later cutting one big file into a variety of *virtual* files... So for me, when I used XP, the limit problem never arose...

[Ron P.]

No there should not be a 2.7 gig or 2 gig file size limit capturing DV (not just avi). AVI is a container, a wrapper that literally is used for hundreds of different video codecs, unless you're capturing raw avi, which will yield file sizes of 65 gig per hour. DV is smaller, which gives 13 gig per hour of video. However it does provide the best quality for the type of video your wanting to edit.

In WinDV you need to set it so that it doesn't split your transfer (capture). You can go to the WinDV website, scroll down, and the image is interactive. Mouse over it, and a small pop-up/tool tip explanation will appear. You need to set the Discontinuity Threshold High, and the Max Frames high, so that the transfer/capture will be restricted to a single file, unless you want it split. I know that it will capture well over what you're experiencing, as a couple of weeks ago, I captured several video clips, and the smallest one was 35 minutes long, and some were right at 1 hr. This was done on a desktop machine running WinXP.

[Ken Berry]

But I think the point was that XP as the operating system imposes an upper limit on the size of file it can create/handle... Or was that Win 98? Gawd!! Now *I* am confused...

[skier-hughes]

depends on the file structure when formatting so fat 32 has a limit but ntfs has one that is so large it is unlikely anyone would hit it.
I think the settings need changing in windv as mentioned above.