Problems making an AVCHD disk in VideoStudio X3

[frankmitchell]

I am attempting to make an AVCHD disk using VideoStudio X3. The result is a jerky video which stops and starts in rapid succession. I have no problems making a standard definition DVD with VideoStudio X3, and I also have no problems making an AVCHD disk with VideoStudio X2.

Corel have said that the problem could be the graphics card in my computer. The card is an ATI Radeon HD 3200 which does not have its own memory. Although the computer has 4GB memory, this may not be sufficient for HD editing with X3 when some memory is used for the graphics card. The reason for X2 being OK is that X2 can only use 2GB memory, so I have plenty for it. I cannot understand any of this!

The camera is a Panasonic HDC-SD100 and the files are input using Panasonic’s “HD Writer” software.
The video is edited in VideoStudio X3 to 55 minutes long and the VSP file in X3 is 881kb.
The MPEG file is made using “same as first video clip” and with SmartRender turned off in “Options”. The rendering takes about 4 hours and the file size is 5.8 Gb.

Project settings:
PAL (25fps)
MPEG files
24 bits, 1920 x 1080, 25 fps
Upper Field First
(HDMV-PAL), 16:9
H.264 Video
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 16800 kbps)
Audio data rate: 384 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio, 48KHz, 3/2(L,C,R,SL,SR)

When this file is opened in MovieFactory 7SE it cannot be played in the preview window. MF7 shuts down. However it can be saved as a dual-layer AVCHD DVD but the picture on the resulting DVD is jerky. The sound appears to be satisfactory.

If the video which has been edited in VideoStudio X3 is saved as an X2 project, the VSP file in X2 is 1927kb.
Opening this file in VideoStudio X2 and making an MPEG file, again using “same as first video clip” and with SmartRender turned off, the rendering takes about 8 hours and the file size is 3.9 Gb.
The Project Settings are identical to the X3 settings above.

Making an AVCHD DVD from this file, either in VideoStudio X2 or MovieFactory 7SE, results in a very satisfactory video.

Why does VideoStudio X2 make a satisfactory AVCHD disk when X3 does not, on my system?
Is it because X3 needs more memory than I have available?

VideoStudio X2 was an ideal program for making AVCHD disks from Panasonic camcorders (I have used the HDC-SD9 and HDC-SD100). It seems a pity that X3 should introduce complications.

[sjj1805]

No reason why you cannot have VSX2 and VSX3 both installed on your computer at the same time.
Why not do your editing with X3 and create a video with the [Share} tab - create video.
THEN use VSX2 to do the authoring.

[Natal]

I would guess that his problem is with the rendering, not the authoring.

I have issues with AVCHD files assembled with X3 as well, whereas the same assembly in X2 has no problems. When I get some time I'll try to characterize what its doing and post that, but something seems flaky with X3.

[sjj1805]

Natal,
Thank you, please let me have as much detail as possible relating to your problem with creating a video in preparation for making an AVCHD disc.

[frankmitchell]

The problem is with the rendering. The process used by X3 is different in some way to that for X2.
Note the difference in file size. The X3 file at 5.8 Gb is about the same size as the original camera files would be for the same length of video. The X2 file at 3.9 Gb is smaller. I appreciate that there is variable bit rate.

The Panasonic camera has four quality levels.
HA = 8 Gb per hour; HG = 6 Gb per hour; HX = 4 Gb per hour; HE = 3 Gb per hour.
I am using HG.

I have both X2 and X3 installed on the computer.

[frankmitchell]

I do have X2 and X3 installed.

The problem is in the rendering. Note the different sizes of the rendered file. In X2 it is 3.9 Gb and in X3 it is 5.8 Gb.
5.8 Gb is very near to the size of a similar length of video from the camera.
These Panasonic cameras have four quality settings: HA, 8 Gb per hour; HG, 6 Gb per hour; HX, 4 Gb per hour; HE, 3 Gb per hour.
I am using the HG setting. ( I am aware that there is variable bit rate.)
X2 would therefore seem to be reducing the quality, but the result is very satisfactory.

I have used VideoStudio since version 7, and X3 is the first to fail to produce a good result.

[Natal]

Natal,
Thank you, please let me have as much detail as possible relating to your problem with creating a video in preparation for making an AVCHD disc.

Ok, I have a Canon HF S10 camera, which shoots HD footage at up 24 Mbps.

The test sequence I used consisted of 6 clips with a total running time of 2:19 minutes.

The initial file info was as follows
xyz.mts
H.264
VBR max 22699
(HDMV-NTSC) 16:9
1920x1080

Both X2 and X3 final files were assembled using "same as the first clip", in other words they were no rendered.
There were no effects applied, all that was done was to assemble the 6 clips into a single file with the same properties as the original.

And now the problem:

When I do this on X2 and play be the resultant file with windows media player the entire clip plays smoothly with no stuttering or any obvious problems.

When I do this on X3 on the other hand, the resultant file plays in windows media, but at specific points the video freezes but the sound continues playing. The progress slider continues to move but the picture is frozen. If I stop the clip, move the slider forward of the freeze point, and continue playing, the video continues as normal until it hits another "glitch" point and does the same thing again.

Both files generated by X2 and X3 appear identical. The same size (410,179,584 bytes), same properties, same everything. The only difference being that the X2 file plays properly in media player while the X3 file doesnt.

I assume the reason is that X3 is corrupting parts of the file when it joins the clips together, in other words it DEFINITELY has a bug that X2 did not have. I'm still a newbie at this editing stuff, but the bug seems pretty clear to me. This is not an issue with my computer or any drivers, since the X2 generated file (which is apparently identical) works perfectly.

As for burning these to an AVCHD hybrid disc, unfortunately that can't be done because VS will only burn at a maximum of 18k Mbps for those sorts of discs. To burn at 24 mbps it appears that you need a blue ray burner. You can re-render at 18 Mbps, but there is clearly visible image degradation in the form of blockiness and reduction of dynamic range in areas of the screen, so that unfortunately is unacceptable. The only options appear to be to either get a blue ray burner (pricey), or shoot using one of the camera's lower resolutions, such as 17 Mbps (FXP mode). The latter option is unfortunate since it defeats the purpose of having a high performance camera in the first place but I guess that is just the way it is.

[frankmitchell]

My experience is the same as natal.

I waited until I had installed the new X3 Service Pack before commenting further, and I have now installed this, hoping it would clear the problem. Unfortunately there is no change to the result from VideoStudio X3. The video file still stutters along.

I have checked that DMA is enabled, Write-behind Caching is disabled, and my paging file is 7500 MB with 4GB RAM.

There is no problem playing the video file made by VideoStudio X2, and the AVCHD disk from X2 is excellent.

[Ken Berry]

Have either of you (frankmitchell and Natal) followed my much repeated but much ignored advice NOT to use SmartRender? I notice, for instance, that Natal seems to equate 'Same as First Clip' with not rendering. That is not necessarily the case. That only happens if you select that but also then accept the default setting (in the Options button) to apply SmartRender. If you untick that box, you could get a different result.

By way of experiment, I just did a quick test myself, throwing together three AVCHD clips from a Panasonic SD-9 camcorder (max. VBR 16,800 kbps -- so well below Natal's 24 Mbps). This was on VS X3. Overall, the project was around 3 minutes. I first chose Share > Create Video File > Same As First Clip. The new file was produced relatively quickly, showing that SmartRender was indeed working. Like you, when I played back the new file in Windows Media Player, I got one major glitch, where the video jumped noticeably, and stopped while the audio kept playing. There was also another glitch, very minor, where a frame or two seemed to have been missed.

I then re-did the project, but this time, after selecting Same As First Clip and giving the new file a name, I pressed the Options button and un-ticked the Apply SmartRender box. It took around 3 times longer to produce the new file. But when played in Windows Media Player, neither of the above glitches were there and everything played smoothly. Quality was also retained, at least to my naked eye.

To muddy the waters just a little more, though, I might note another potential anomaly in these experiments. The second file played smoothly in all the software DVD players I have (WMP, WinDVD 9 with Blu-Ray, Windows Media Center and Nero ShowTime). The first file also showed the defects in all these players, with the exception of Nero ShowTime. While the jumps were still there in Nero, the video did not come to a complete stop and the jumps seems to flow much more smoothly, if you can imagine what I mean. I should also note that the second file also jumped in another spot the first time I played it in WMP. But when I replayed it several times in WMP, and as noted in all the other players, it played perfectly smoothly.

Anyway, at the end of the day, I agree the glitches are there, but it seems the problem can be corrected by not using SmartRender. I would be interested to hear any feedback you might have if you try this yourselves.

[Natal]

Have either of you (frankmitchell and Natal) followed my much repeated but much ignored advice NOT to use SmartRender? I notice, for instance, that Natal seems to equate 'Same as First Clip' with not rendering. That is not necessarily the case. That only happens if you select that but also then accept the default setting (in the Options button) to apply SmartRender. If you untick that box, you could get a different result.

By way of experiment, I just did a quick test myself, throwing together three AVCHD clips from a Panasonic SD-9 camcorder (max. VBR 16,800 kbps -- so well below Natal's 24 Mbps). This was on VS X3. Overall, the project was around 3 minutes. I first chose Share > Create Video File > Same As First Clip. The new file was produced relatively quickly, showing that SmartRender was indeed working. Like you, when I played back the new file in Windows Media Player, I got one major glitch, where the video jumped noticeably, and stopped while the audio kept playing. There was also another glitch, very minor, where a frame or two seemed to have been missed.

I then re-did the project, but this time, after selecting Same As First Clip and giving the new file a name, I pressed the Options button and un-ticked the Apply SmartRender box. It took around 3 times longer to produce the new file. But when played in Windows Media Player, neither of the above glitches were there and everything played smoothly. Quality was also retained, at least to my naked eye.

To muddy the waters just a little more, though, I might note another potential anomaly in these experiments. The second file played smoothly in all the software DVD players I have (WMP, WinDVD 9 with Blu-Ray, Windows Media Center and Nero ShowTime). The first file also showed the defects in all these players, with the exception of Nero ShowTime. While the jumps were still there in Nero, the video did not come to a complete stop and the jumps seems to flow much more smoothly, if you can imagine what I mean. I should also note that the second file also jumped in another spot the first time I played it in WMP. But when I replayed it several times in WMP, and as noted in all the other players, it played perfectly smoothly.

Anyway, at the end of the day, I agree the glitches are there, but it seems the problem can be corrected by not using SmartRender. I would be interested to hear any feedback you might have if you try this yourselves.

The problem I was having was fixed with the latest patch. And yes, smartrender was turned off.

[Ken Berry]

Glad to hear it ... on both counts!!

[frankmitchell]

Yes, Ken, I always have SmartRender turned off.

I have followed mitchell65's (no relation!) advice above (from Ken) and made a template from an original Panasonic file.
The new Service Pack is also installed.

Using this I made a trial using 20 shots making up about 4 minutes of video and including a few transitions.

This took about 22 minutes to render, without SmartRender, and is perfect.

I have yet to try this on my 55 minute video.

Frank Mitchell

Panasonic HDC-SD100

[mitchell65]

mitchell65's (no relation!)

How do you know?