X3 not giving back memory

[marty2010]

Ok, I looked at Corel Program Memory:
Task Manager/Processes Tab, Corel PSPP.exe:

Idle = Rebooted = 25% system memory usage.
Corel Open = 68656K
5 ( 1Mb each) Tif files open = 197168K
5 files closed (Corel program running) = 79686K
Corel Program Closed = 27% system memory usage.

It looks like after the first file is opened Corel grabs an extra (10MB) and keeps it.
Closing all the files I have 10MB more that I started with (Corel Program still running).

But, I have not run out of memory but opening and closing files.

All other Paint programs I use follow the same memory usage pattern on my system.

****
I got a 100MB TIFF (http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/ma ... p?catID=zm) for a test (renamed it 4 times).

Started PSPX3
No image 68432K used by Corel
1 100MB image open, 179324K
2 100MB images open, 279300K
3 100MB images open, 379460K
4 100MB images open, 479720K

Closed the 4 images, PSPX3 running, 80140K

Opened 1 image again 180404K

[LeviFiction]

Are you making actual changes to the images before closing? For me, not necessarily for the person who brought it up, editing alone keeps memory in the buffer. I don't run out of memory editing only a few images either, it took a while and opening, editing, and closing, the image to actually run out of memory. But the result is the same on my system, it does not return the memory it uses after actually editing the image.

This was a big part of what bigfatron said was happening in the third post.

If you open an image and do nothing then it gives the memory back.

If you open an image and do stuff and then save it and close it then the memory isn't given back and the only way to sort it after a while is restart PSP. Very annoying.

[marty2010]

No, I did not initially edit .. just opened and closed them all.

So, I went back and edited/saved in various combinations.

The pattern now is:

Start Corel 95100K
File 1 open 195500K , edited, saved
File 2 open 295400K , edited, saved
File 3 open 397200K , edited, saved
File 4 open 498700K , edited, saved
File 5 open 599600K , edited, saved

Close them one at a time the memory drops "back" to previous number (approx).
All closed but Corel still running 95000K

Reopen the files and the memory advances as expected.

No problems seen.

[bigfatron]

Just to clarify, my test pattern (which is my typical workflow and how I found the issue in the first place) was...

Open 4 or 5 files
Do stuff to them (typically apply a filter or sharpen or a curves adjustment)
Save copy of file as JPEG
Close original files

And after all that Task Manager shows PSP X3 is holding almost all the memory that it did when all the files were still open. I've reproduced this on fresh installs of both 32 bit and 64 bit versions of Windows 7 Home Premium. The 'nuclear option' of restarting PSP X3 is the only solution to get working again i've found.

If you just open and close half a dozen files without editing then the problem doesn't occur. Editing the files seems to be the key. And even disabling the undo function totally doesn't stop the 'leak'.

I note that your tests were done on Vista, so there is a slight possibility it could be an OS thing. Then again I seem to remember reading X3 is 'designed for Windows 7', or meant to be

And as I noted in my last post, having taken off X3 and reinstalled X2 then there is no problem with the older version.

Thanks for trying anyway, its all useful info if anyone at Corel might look at this thread.

[marty2010]

I would be interested to know what your numbers were (memory used by Corel) at each stage opening/editing/closing/reopening.

With only 2GB available for processes and Corel I suppose you could run out of memory.

I am at 1GB memory usage before opening Corel (32 bit application).

[bigfatron]

I would be interested to know what your numbers were (memory used by Corel) at each stage opening/editing/closing/reopening.

With only 2GB available for processes and Corel I suppose you could run out of memory.

I am at 1GB memory usage before opening Corel (32 bit application).

I'm on a 64 bit setup with 8 GB of RAM now so actually PSP should be able to command a full 2GB all on its own. Its a bit past my bedtime now but if I get time in the next couple of evenings i'll do another test for you (i'll have to reinstall X3 first too) and put up step by step numbers.

And the crux of the problem anyway is not that i'm opening an excessive number of big files at once and filling up the full address space for X3's process but rather after i've worked on each file and closed it afterwards then the memory isn't been given back. I can reproduce the problem by opening files even one at a time.

[mcat]

I came to the board, for this same problem. Its driving me up the wall. I have 12GB of ram, and a 2TB hard drive, so getting out of error messages should be one of the few messages I shouldn't be seeing.
My work flow: Work on Raw Image in my favorite converter, and then port to X3 to do final touch ups. This usually requires masks and layers.
Then I flatten, save as tiff, and start the process over again, usually half way through the third one I get the out of memory errors.
FWIW, the same thing will happen if I pull any large image file up and work with it, though usually it take a little longer to get the error.
I have to admit that for the first time since Paint Shop Pro v3.1 I don't recommend anyone buying this versions of Paint Shop Pro.....I always suggest they find an earlier one.
And I'm not getting into how bad X3's browser is.

I'm working with 16 bit TIFF files (about 100MB a piece). What appears to be happening is I open PSP X3, work with half a dozen images, then close them but PSP X3 still shows a high amount of RAM resources in Task Manager consistent with when the files were still open. You then open another file to work on it and get the 'not enough memory to complete this operation' message. Only solution then is to close PSP X3 and restart it before working.

Any ideas for sorting this or anyone know if its a bug thats being worked on?

[marty2010]

Of your 12GB of memory.
How much of that can Corel use on your system?

Did you happen to be watching the Windows Task Manager to see how much was used when working the big file?

What was the entire error message?

When did the error message happen, like when you started a new layer or saving the file e.g.?

From the sound of it, many more people should be reporting this problem!

[mcat]

Error message as follows
Not enough memory to complete this operation; close one or more documents or applications and try again. If this does not correct the problem, you may need to adujust your memory settings or work on a smaller document.

When this happens the only option is to close X3. I have undo checked, no limits, and the fast undo is also unchecked.

I don't know if any of the below information will help, but here it is just in case.

Resourse Monitor
Paint Shop Pro PID ~ 3940
Threads ~ 32
CPU ~ 0

Memory
PID ~3940
Hard Faults/sec~ 0
Commit (KB) ~1,582,780
Working Set (KB)~1,552,112
Shareable (KB) ~ 46,948
Private(KB)~1,505,164

Physical Memory
4612 MB in use
7560 MB Available

Processes
37% used Physical Memory

All readings are from when the out of memory error occured, and while X3 was still open

Of your 12GB of memory.
How much of that can Corel use on your system?

Did you happen to be watching the Windows Task Manager to see how much was used when working the big file?

What was the entire error message?

When did the error message happen, like when you started a new layer or saving the file e.g.?

From the sound of it, many more people should be reporting this problem!

[bigfatron]

OK, to put some numbers on this.

Machine is currently running nothing but this session of IE and PSP X3 (fresh install and patched)

PSP X3 process with nothing open - 63616K
Open my 5 test 16 bit TIFFs - 472364K
Close all 5 with no editing - 71136K
Reopen all 5 again - 472644K
Apply HPS to all 5 images - 862052K
Close all 5 images without saving (so now no images are open in PSP) - 456336K
Reopen all 5 images again - 854840K
Repeat HPS to all 5 images - 1246116K
Save copy of each image to JPEG and close TIFF unsaved - 852636K

So odd in this instance that the last set of operations did give some of the RAM back. The RAM from the first 5 that were actually acted on hasn't come back though.


Now compare with X2

PSP X2 Process with nothing open - 55052K
Open same 5 test images as for the X3 Test - 450756K
Close all 5 with no editing - 57288K
Reopen all 5 again - 450924K
Apply HPS to all 5 images - 452336K
Close all 5 images without saving (so now no images are open in PSP) - 57888K

So as you can see, big difference in behaviour in terms of memory being released on closure of images by the two versions.

[marty2010]

Your tests and numbers clearly demonstrate the problem.

[bigfatron]

Your tests and numbers clearly demonstrate the problem.

Yes, just hope Corel are paying attention too

[sjj1805]

Windows uses a complex and efficient process to manage memory operations. It keeps various dll files loaded in case you need it again. For example, if you open XYZ and then close it the dll remains in memory. If you open XYZ again it will launch quicker because the dll is already in memory. When/if Windows needs the space in memory for something else it will make the space by unloading the dll(s) that arena

[bigfatron]

Windows uses a complex and efficient process to manage memory operations. It keeps various dll files loaded in case you need it again. For example, if you open XYZ and then close it the dll remains in memory. If you open XYZ again it will launch quicker because the dll is already in memory. When/if Windows needs the space in memory for something else it will make the space by unloading the dll(s) that arena

With respect, this doesn't appear to be the case in this instance. And I say that as someone with the thick end of 20 years software development experience. The actual program code alone of PSP X3 does not need the amount of memory that its process is retaining, nor should the 'out of memory' errors following repetitive file open/operate/close cycles that many people on this thread are experiencing be happening.

[sjj1805]

There are various tips here for clearing the memory cache in Windows 7
also
Here is another article of interest

Prior to Windows 2000 you used to be able to release unused memory with a registry hack