ProX3 rendering AVCHD generates jerky file

[robspa48]

Hi, I´m frustrated, exasperated and furious after 2 weeks of initial trials with ProX3: I´ve edited a project of less than 10 min (Prox3 is perfect for editing) and then rendered it as a video file in AVCHD 1920x1080 format (but i also tried different formats, 1440x1080 and DVD): rendering goes to end in approximately 40 min (even if it spends some 3-4 min between 99% and 100%!!!), but the rendered file is only fluid for the initial 1-2 min, then it gets jerky.
Of course I excluded Smart rendering option in "Preferences", which is always a source of problems.
I have uninstalled (cleanly, as suggested in another post, using CDS_2010_Clean-Up) and reinstalled prox3 3 times from CD; I have obviously installed both DXSDK_Feb10 and the latest update for ProX3, but the bottom line is still the same, a jerky file. The situation is even worst when i tried rendering a 25 min project...
When I tried to render the same project on a different and even more powerful computer (with i7 processor) the problem was exacerbated: rendering stopped at 8%, the program crashed and got a message "ProX3 stopped working and need to be closed". This crash process also generated dumpfiles on my computer.
Any idea on what else should I try would be welcome, before I throw this software to the garbage after many years of fidelity to Ulead. Thanks
My PC:
HP Pavilion dv7 Notebook PC
Operating System: Windows 7 Integral edition, 64 bits
Motherboard: 3624 18.50
Graphic Card: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650
Sound Card:
Processor: Intel Core 2 Qaud CPU Q9000 2 GHz
Hard Disk Drive: 300Gb
Memory: 4 Go

My source files come from a AVCHD panasonic hdc-tm300, NTSC.
Project Properties: NTSC frame omission (29.97 ips), MPEG files
24 Bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 ips; Upper field first; (DVD-NTSC), 16:9
video rate: Variable (Max. 9000 kbps)
audio rate: 384 kbps
Audio Dolby dig, 48 KHz, 2/0(L,R)

Output format (file) AVCHD NTSCHD 1920: MPEG; 24 Bits, 1920 x 1080, 29.97 ips
Upper field first; (HDMV-NTSC), 16:9; Video H.264
Video rate: Variable (Max. 16800 kbps) Audio rate : 384 kbps
Audio Dolby dig, 48 KHz, 3/2(L,C,R,SL,SR)

[GeorgeP]

rendered file is only fluid for the initial 1-2 min, then it gets jerky.
Of course I excluded Smart rendering ...

Hi Everyone.
Robert,I experienced most of your problems.Here is very short test:
2 of 15 secs clips with 3D flip transition in the middle.No problem in AVCHD NoSmartRender video. I duplicated the above to the timeline. Rendered video choppy.
Longer, few minutes tests with random transitions and a title resulted also in hanging-up otherwise perfectly working Win7 WMP.
The only method that works for me every time is a Movie Template using 2PASS rendering,M2t format 14-16 Mb/s ,AVCHD,80 to 100% quality.It takes twice as long,4x to 6x real time to render,depending on complexity of the scenes,transitions and titles.It works on my Canon AVCHD HF100,12Mb/s source as well as on Panasonic AVCHD-lite DMC-ZS3.
It is yet to be tested on longer edits.
George
Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
HP-Pavilion,Model: NP206AA-A2L p6102f
AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 925 Processor (4 CPUs), ~2.8GHz
Memory: 8192MB RAM
ATI Radeon HD 4650
Available OS Memory: 8192MB RAM

[robspa48]

Thanks George.
I could eventually solve my problems, by 1. "curing" my 8 min project of some dubious files (one was .avi, vs all the others which were .mpeg), 2. eliminating two anti-shake filters, and 3. saving the hole as a ProX2 project which i could render as a fluid file and burnt a nice hybrid disc in ProX2. When i tried to render the same final project in ProX3, I found again the same problems with a jerky rendered video.
My temporary conclusion: ProX3 is a more unstable and more delicate software than ProX2. Really a pity! Any comment from other ProX3 users?

[sjj1805]

......

My source files come from a AVCHD panasonic hdc-tm300, NTSC.
Project Properties: NTSC frame omission (29.97 ips), MPEG files
24 Bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 ips; Upper field first; (DVD-NTSC), 16:9
video rate: Variable (Max. 9000 kbps)
audio rate: 384 kbps
Audio Dolby dig, 48 KHz, 2/0(L,R)

Output format (file) AVCHD NTSCHD 1920: MPEG; 24 Bits, 1920 x 1080, 29.97 ips
Upper field first; (HDMV-NTSC), 16:9; Video H.264
Video rate: Variable (Max. 16800 kbps) Audio rate : 384 kbps
Audio Dolby dig, 48 KHz, 3/2(L,C,R,SL,SR)

Why have you altered the bit rate to something higher?
You will gain nothing by doing so and this might be the problem.

[Natal]

......

My source files come from a AVCHD panasonic hdc-tm300, NTSC.
Project Properties: NTSC frame omission (29.97 ips), MPEG files
24 Bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 ips; Upper field first; (DVD-NTSC), 16:9
video rate: Variable (Max. 9000 kbps)
audio rate: 384 kbps
Audio Dolby dig, 48 KHz, 2/0(L,R)

Output format (file) AVCHD NTSCHD 1920: MPEG; 24 Bits, 1920 x 1080, 29.97 ips
Upper field first; (HDMV-NTSC), 16:9; Video H.264
Video rate: Variable (Max. 16800 kbps) Audio rate : 384 kbps
Audio Dolby dig, 48 KHz, 3/2(L,C,R,SL,SR)

Why have you altered the bit rate to something higher?
You will gain nothing by doing so and this might be the problem.

That is probably the value the program is setting it at. His source file is being upconverted from 720x480 to 1920x1080, presumably that would increase the bit rate as well. That may be the problem. The increase in apparent resolution would require a bit rate higher than the max allowable in VS3X (18k I think, even though current AVCHD spec goes to 24k), so it is compressing and losing bits of the image to get the video within the spec for the higher resolution.

[sjj1805]

I missed that second discrepancy - again there is no point in changing from 720x480 to become 1920x1080.
This will also serve to make matters worse. You cannot put in what is not there in the first place.

[Ken Berry]

I think both of you are missing the point. The project properties have little to do with this. His source files are AVCHD, and his output properties largely mirror the input files -- NOT those standard def project properties. His camcorder is a full 1920 x 1080i model, released less than a year ago, and uses a VBR max. 16,800.

I have often commented that it is impossible to set project properties for AVCHD (or HDV) projects, so I just ignore that part and concentrate on the input properties and make sure my output matches them. I thus use Share > Create Video File > Same as first file (or else create a custom output template which matches the input properties, if I am going to do a lot of these.)

[sjj1805]

I am not looking at project properties I am comparing his input to his output.
He is as the other poster pointed out attempting to upscale.
If he does it the way you do and render a "same as first clip" then it should hopefully overcome that issue because he will no longer be upscaling.

[Ken Berry]

But I don't see why you think he is trying to upscale. His original video is AVCHD 1920 x 1080 VBR 16800 and his output is the same...

[sjj1805]

......

My source files come from a AVCHD panasonic hdc-tm300, NTSC.
Project Properties: NTSC frame omission (29.97 ips), MPEG files
24 Bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 ips; Upper field first; (DVD-NTSC), 16:9
video rate: Variable (Max. 9000 kbps)
audio rate: 384 kbps
Audio Dolby dig, 48 KHz, 2/0(L,R)

Ahh I can see - it looked like he was posting the properties of his source files - I can now see the word "Project Properties" has sneaked in!

[robspa48]

Ken is right, I'm not upscaling at all, my source files are "top quality" and in the output I'm consistent with them.

[Ken Berry]

I should have added that I use X3 very successfully to burn AVCHD hybrid discs (and Blu-Ray folders) using DVD Factory 2010 (with a menu) and hybrid discs without menu using MF 7 SE. The quality is excellent with no jerkiness. The same also applied with X2... So I am unable to explain why you might be having problems.

[robspa48]

Hi,
let me share with you my last findings:
1. eventually I could manage to render a fluid 13 min film with X3, by using the following settings which i selected through the Menu "Parameters", submenu "Movie Templates manager":
Files MPEG .m2t
quality 100%, 2 pass rendering
24 Bits, 1920 x 1080, 29.97 ips
Upper field first
(HDMV-NTSC), 16:9
Vidéo H.264
Video Rate : Variable (Max. 15000 kbps)
audio rate : 256 kbps
digital Audio Dolby , 48 KHz, 2/0(L,R)

Using a single pass yielded a jerky video, all other settings being the same as above.#
2. For unknown reasons, X3 (but to a certain extent also X2) doesn´t like certain clips and in particular those where I had modified the Contrast, or the saturation or both; or when i used the Anti-skake filter. In those cases the X2 application crashed, whereas X3 could go to the end but yielded a jerky video. Resetting the contrast and other settings of those clips to the original ones could correct the anomaly. But not for all the clips where my only solution was to eliminate them from the project.
I hope this can help other people in trouble...Many thanks again to GeorgeP and Ken for their suggestions. The existence of this forum is one of the reasons I still stay with video studio despite all the problems.