rendering to dvd from hd (panasonic) crashes videostudio

[jkane6]

Hello,

i have a question,

I'm currently rendering my hd home movies (1080i) to dvd (avchd), this is mostly a backup and way to review the output of a few years of movies.

anyway, the work flow is simple

1) drag hd movie clip into workflow
2) press share
3) pick avchd
4) modify mainscreen to document file
5) press next then burn

i am burning to dvd (about 36 min of hd video)

computer has core 2 duo, 2.66, hd capable (powerdvd 8 plus) with a blu-ray player, 4 gb of memory, about 1 tb of storage, windows 7 professional.

what happens is that after rendering for awhile, videostudio crashes, (stop responding), this also occured with vista. i was wondering if these is some diags that i can collect about what is wrong.

regards

Jeff

[Ken Berry]

I am assuming you are not doing any editing at all to your video clips. But what are its properties? I assume it is AVCHD but it could also be HDV since you just describe it as 1080i...

What version of VS are you using -- though I am assuming that it is X2?

I am also assuming that your step (2) is Share > Create Disc (as opposed to Create Video File)...

I have no idea what you mean by step (4) -- what main screen and what kind of 'document' file (and why)?

Otherwise, when I produce my AVCHD hybrid discs on DVD using X2, I edit my files and immediately go to Share > Create Disc > AVCHD. The burning module opens with my project files showing in the burning timeline. Now, in the middle icon of the three in the bottom left of the burning screen, I make sure the burning properties window reflects exactly the original properties of my input video. That will preserve the original quality.

Since my input AVCHD to date on such projects has had a max. VBR of 18 Mbps, I use that. The quality is certainly preserved beautifully, but with such a bitrate, I find I can only fit about 20 minutes of video on a single layer DVD. Since you mention 36 minutes, I am further assuming that either your camera uses a lower max. VBR (say, 16 Mbps) or else you are using a default setting from VS which uses a lower bitrate...

The new X3 has a totally different burning module, and I personally have not yet found a way of altering the burning properties for AVCHD, nor of producing a hybrid disc without a menu...

[jkane6]

Ok, so some answers

the version is videostudio 11 plus, with the latest patch update.

the input is:

Disc Title:
Disc Size: 599,276,724 bytes
Protection: AACS
BD-Java: No
Playlist: 00001.MPLS
Size: 499,881,984 bytes
Length: 0:06:50
Total Bitrate: 9.73 Mbps
Video: MPEG-4 AVC Video / 8810 kbps / 1080i / 29.970 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.0
Audio: English / Dolby Digital Audio / 5.1 / 48 kHz / 384 kbps


the output, selecting output disk, then avchd

Disc Title: PRJ_20100203
Disc Size: 44,314,936 bytes
Protection: AACS
BD-Java: No
Playlist: 00000.MPLS
Size: 44,310,528 bytes
Length: 0:00:35
Total Bitrate: 9.98 Mbps
Video: MPEG-4 AVC Video / 9053 kbps / 1080i / 29.970 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.0
Audio: Undetermined / Dolby Digital Audio / 2.0 / 48 kHz / 384 kbps

note: it is not the same file for input and output, just an example.


the main screen i was mentioning is the movie title page, it plays a video and you enter text to define what and where it was taken.


I will do some more testing today

thanks

Jeff

[Ken Berry]

I can't help but ask where you got those properties from -- I mean, which program did you use to get them? They are definitely not the type of Properties that Video Studio gives...

I also have to say that the bitrate for both input and output seems incredibly low for AVCHD, though again it is by no means clear whether this is a maximum Variable Bitrate or only the average. If the latter, then the max bitrate might be around 12 Mbps which is still very much on the low side.

Can you also confirm that you are trying to burn an AVCHD hybrid disc, or are you trying to downconvert to a standard definition DVD?

Finally, when you say you are using Version 11+ with the latest update patch, do you mean that you have applied the Power Pack which converts VS11+ into VS11.5+? If the 11.5+ does not show in "About Video Studio" when you click on the ? in the top right of screen, then you need to apply the Power Pack. VS11+ had great difficulty dealing with AVCHD which was very new on the market when it was first released. VS11.5+ contained significant improvements in dealing with AVCHD.

[jkane6]

Hello,

thanks for the info,

so version: Ulead Videostudio 11.5.0157.1

teh avchd specification allows you to write to a standard dvd+r disk in blu-ray format, although it is not as long, it is actually a "blu-ray" disk, i don't have any problems playing the disks in my blu-ray player once they are actually completed,

i currently am matching the output to the input, 1920*1440 and on, the characteristics of the input format.

the program that gave me those results is BDinfo, free on the web.

my hd camera is a HDC-SD9, (panasonic),

output formats are (from the camera) are:

Recording mode and
transfer rate
HA: Approx. 17 Mbps (VBR)
HG: Approx. 13 Mbps (VBR)
HX: Approx. 9 Mbps (VBR)
HE: Approx. 6 Mbps (VBR)

regards

Jeff

[Ken Berry]

Ah -- so that explains the low bitrate. You filmed using the second lowest quality setting...

But I have to add that the SD9 in particular gave a lot of trouble to users with both VS11.5 and X2. It seems that Panasonic uses its own codec which is slightly different from the international AVCHD standard. (Mind you, that standard in itself seems a bit wobbly since Sony also seems to vary a bit from it...)

One SD9 user even sent me a data DVD full of 1920 x 1080 video shot with an SD9, and I never managed to edit it in a way which would play back smoothly, even using my Quad 6600. However, I can at least say that as a Beta tester for VS X3 which has just been released, one of the first things I did was to test it with some of the video from the SD9 and it edited it just fine with smooth playback.

I never, however, tried to produce an AVCHD hybrid disc with it.

One thing you could try, however, would be re-encode your video (Share > Create Video File > Same as First Clip). This would, however, use the VS codec, and may produce a video which you can then use in the burning module for your hybrid disc.

[jkane6]

Ken,

hello.

outputing "blu-ray" to a standard-dvd (dvd+r), is just a cheap way to test disks without wasting a true "blu-ray" media disk, but you lost me on the codec, so when i select

make disk=> avchd => burn uses a different codec than

make disk file => avchd => to disk, then use that is my input for make disk => avchd => burn

and your comment on the bit-rate, i'm a little confused,

1920*1440 comes in various flavors,

on my camera it is

HA: Approx. 17 Mbps (VBR)
HG: Approx. 13 Mbps (VBR)
HX: Approx. 9 Mbps (VBR)
HE: Approx. 6 Mbps (VBR)

these are all 1920*1440 24 bit, so why are they different, does it change the quality of the output? (probably)

is HA quality above true HD?

I was wondering, the camera specification states that you need sdhc class 4 or above, there are class 6 and class 10 above that, i wonder if using a slower speed sdhc disk slows down the transfer and the camera drops, bits /frames causing the output from the camera to be not quite AVCHD.

i check my media, i have both 4 and 8, the eights are class 4 and the 4gb are class 2, i asked panasonic today i can run 32GB class 10. but they have not answered yet.

do you have a link to a better analysis program of hd video, so i could verify if the camera is making "true" AVCHD.

regards

Jeff

[Ken Berry]

You don't need any program to tell you you are filming AVCHD. That is what the SD9 films in. So you are obviously outputting AVCHD, but if you are filming with the HX setting of your camera (9 Mbps), and it seems you are from the properties you gave above, it is very low quality AVCHD.

Your HA setting on the camera gives the camera's best quality output at 17 Mbps max VBR, which is the maximum bitrate that camera uses. It is NOT "above" true HD. True HD is 1920 x 1080 (not 1920 x 1440 as you have written), but it can be any bitrate. So you are filming 1920 x 1080 but at a low bitrate (9 Mbps) and the result is poor quality high definition!

Just as an aside, the old AVCHD international standard allowed a maximum bitrate of 18 Mbps. But last year, this was raised to 24 Mbps. Only a few camcorders have since appeared which use that higher bitrate. But your camera is capable of producing excellent quality AVCHD as long as you use the HA setting.

And all I was suggesting was that since a lot of SD9 users had difficulty getting VS 11.5+ and X2 to even play the video straight out of the camera, you first re-render it with the same properties (to maintain whatever quality you have) before editing it or outputting it to disc. Using the VS codec in that render has, for some users, overwritten the tweaks in the Panasonic codec used to film the video, and thus makes it more easily editable by VS.

[jkane6]

got it,

i am currently converting it with the video to disk, then image to dvd, by the way, since i have started matching the input to output characteristics i have not had any problems. burned 3 dvds, about 1/2 hour each, the next one i will do the disk first and then use that as input for the dvd.

i'll send you the specs when it is finished.

thanks for your help

regards

Jeff

[Ken Berry]

I am not sure what you mean you will first do it to disk and then use that as input for the DVD. What is the 'disk' you are referring to -- the hard disk on your computer?

[jkane6]

ken,

here is the analysis of the output after running it to disk and then using that as input to dvd.

IDEO:

Codec Bitrate Description
----- ------- -----------
MPEG-4 AVC Video 8810 kbps 1080i / 29.970 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.0

AUDIO:

Codec Language Bitrate Description
----- -------- ------- -----------
Dolby Digital Audio English 384 kbps 5.1 / 48 kHz / 384 kbps

QUICK SUMMARY:

Disc Title:
Disc Size: 599,276,724 bytes
Protection: AACS
BD-Java: No
Playlist: 00001.MPLS
Size: 499,881,984 bytes
Length: 0:06:50
Total Bitrate: 9.73 Mbps
Video: MPEG-4 AVC Video / 8810 kbps / 1080i / 29.970 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.0
Audio: English / Dolby Digital Audio / 5.1 / 48 kHz / 384 kbps


CHAPTERS:

Number Time In Length Avg Video Rate Max 1-Sec Rate Max 1-Sec Time Max 5-Sec Rate Max 5-Sec Time Max 10Sec Rate Max 10Sec Time Avg Frame Size Max Frame Size Max Frame Time
------ ------- ------ -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- --------------
1 0:00:00.000 0:01:27.087 8,196 kbps 10,341 kbps 00:00:29.796 9,569 kbps 00:00:28.194 9,265 kbps 00:00:27.427 34,183 bytes 168,183 bytes 00:00:00.500

00001.M2TS 4113 (0x1011) 0x1B AVC 10.410

regards

Jeff

[jkane6]

Ken,

disk equals hard disk, the option you suggested under share, create video file. then use first video format.

anyway, not sure what will happen when i start editing, might be messy, for now i just want to "backup" the video and play it to determine what to do next.

regards

jeff