Maintain DV quality from Capture to DVD.

[IanC]

I would like to know if I should expect to be able to achieve the same picture quality from a DVD made in VS Pro x2 that I do compared to that which I view off tape when I play DV tape from my camera through a TV. I capture (PAL) with the capture format set to DV from a mini DV camera via firewire. I set the project preferences to match the input which gives me AVI as the edit format. I then burn the DVD (from the project) to DVD with the recording format set to DVD-Video. It all works, menus, titles, edits all work fine, but the picture quality is not as good as the DV tape picture. I have tried making a video file first to burn from, but the result is the same. Am I expecting too much or missing something? Thank you.

[weaver]

I would like to know if I should expect to be able to achieve the same picture quality from a DVD made in VS Pro x2 that I do compared to that which I view off tape when I play DV tape from my camera through a TV. I capture (PAL) with the capture format set to DV from a mini DV camera via firewire. I set the project preferences to match the input which gives me AVI as the edit format. I then burn the DVD (from the project) to DVD with the recording format set to DVD-Video. It all works, menus, titles, edits all work fine, but the picture quality is not as good as the DV tape picture. I have tried making a video file first to burn from, but the result is the same. Am I expecting too much or missing something? Thank you.

This is normal. The DV quality is much more higher that the quality of the DVD videos. You cannot change to much on this. (in bandwidth DV=25 Mbps, DVD=8Mbps or less). Additionally there is an additional signal compression (MPEG) what also reduces the DV quality. You need a high quality of DV signal for editing and processing, than all these processe reduce the signal quality a bit

[DVDDoug]

No. DVDs are MPEG-2 which is more-compressed and more-lossy than DV. (As you probaly know, DV requires 13GB per hour.)

However, high-bitrate MPEG-2 (6000+ kbps) should be appear very close to DV quality.

[Ken Berry]

I would agree wholeheartedly with Doug. Taking as a give that the original DV is of high quality, then maintaining high quality settings in the DVD output should pretty closely approximate DV in apparent quality on your TV. Doug recommends a bitrate of 6000 kbps or above. I usually take that one further and recommend people burn their DVD projects at 8000 kbps.

But the big proviso here is how long your project is. Mine are generally less than one hour long. Using a bitrate of 8000 kbps means that I can burn a one hour project to a single layer DVD without any trouble. Indeed, if I use a more compressed audio format (Dolby or mpeg layer 2) then I can usually fit around 10 minutes more of video in the same space.

If your project is around 90 minutes, then you would use a bitrate of around 7000 kbps; and if two hours, then a bitrate of around 4000 kbps. The latter will only give at best a quality akin to VHS video tape. But as Doug says, anything above 6000 kbps will give pretty good quality.

[Ken Veal]

I used to get "glitches" when using 8000 for an hour DVD( with dolby sound.)Following advice from this forum I since then have used 7000 and to my (and others) untrained eye there is no difference in the picture
quality and I dont have to worry about going over the hour as well.
..................Ken V

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Ian

Agreeing with the comments already given, if your original video is Mini DV, then your video should be using Dv-Avi.
This is the best format for editing standard video.
When you view the completed video on the tv you should be saying ¡¥wow¡¦ that looks good.

Can you give more details as to your workflow.
How long is the video?
The converted video properties.?
Aspect ratio 16:9 or 4:3.?

Have a read at my quick guide to Dv-Avi and to Mpeg from the link below.

[IanC]

Thank you all for this help. I have followed this advice and used another guide I found on here and have made some changes to how I worked. My video lasts 20minutes. My DV capture is Microsoft AVI files 24bit 720 x 576, 16.9 25fps, DV encoder type 1.

I then edit & add titles etc.

I then make a video file in the share section; I'm not sure of the difference between PAL DV 16.9(first option) and PAL DVD in the DVD\VCD\SVCD\MPEG 16.9 (3rd option), but I got PAL Mpeg, 25fps. I made a new project and set the quality to 100 and 8000kbps in the project preferences.

I made the menu, then burned the DVD and the quality IS THE BEST I have achieved so far.

Thank you all for the advice. I still think I haven't quite got the settings right, but I am getting there.

[Eric VS9]

Just in case it was missed Field order can mess up the quality of the final video (MPG2 DVD) I am assuming because it was captured via firewire DV AVI then it was Lower Field First so the conversion to DVD must be Lower Field First to achieve a smooth final video

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Ian
Your workflow and settings look ok to me.

PAL-DV is DV-Avi
The same as/similar to your captured video file (Microsoft AVI files 24bit 720 x 576, 16.9 25fps, DV encoder type 1.)

To burn a DVD you need an Mpeg 2 file a Pal-DVD.
Choosing Pal-DVD will create a Mpeg 2 file of your project.
I assume you have taken this option, when complete a thumbnail will be placed in the library, right click and select properties, what are they?
You can also play this file on your Media Player to check quality.

We then use the new Mpeg file to burn a DVD
From a New Project - Share Create Disc - Add Video adding the new Mpeg 2 file.

The default templates use Lpcm audio, if you want to use Digital Dolby then you would have to either create your own template using Make Movie Manager or use the ¡¥Custom¡¦ option or modify the Project Properties to match the render properties (Pal-DVD) Although this will not improve the video quality.

Capture:-Can you check your capture process for dropped frames, you may have to activate this option from File ¡V Preferences -Capture
Dropped frames are not normally a problem when capturing via Firewire to Dv format as the process transfers / copies the data rather than re-coding it. But its worth checking.

[weaver]

Just a question.

In the F6 properties you can set the scan quality (or somthiong similar, I do not know exactly how they call this function in the English version). Thedefault setting is 70%.

What is this exactly for?

Thank you for your help.

[Ken Berry]

In effect it represents a balance between an acceptable quality end video and the time taken to produce it. By pushing the slider above the default 70%, you should in theory be able to improve your end video in small increments, but the time taken for it to be produced will be significantly increased. Some people use this all the time set at 100% and seem very happy with the end result.

I personally have tried it, but have not noticed any significant improvements justifying the significant extra time taken. So I always leave it at 70%. But it is a matter of personal taste and patience! Try it for yourself and judge the results.

Note that depending on your computer resources, some people have found that their computer hangs when set to 100%. If that happens, slide it back to a smaller figure until your computer becomes stable again...

[weaver]

Hi Ken

thank you for the reply.
I collected exactly the same experience as you did. There was no change when I set the slider to 100%. Therefore I am not really sure about the function of this setting.
Additionally I could not manage to set another default level than 70%. This means when I open the project this setting is always 70%, however when I saved the project I set this slider to 100%.

I have a feeling that this slider is used just for the preview window (or proxy conversion) and has nothing to do with the overall endpicture quality. (why would ULEAD/Corel reduce the quality to 70%?)

[Ken Berry]

It is NOT just associated with the preview -- it is totally linked to the final output.

And it is NOT reducing quality -- it is a high quality setting (70%) but a quality which can be reached in an acceptable amount of time. And as I say, some users swear that they can detect significant improvements in quality by using it. But I simply have not been able to see the same improvements, and certainly not to a degree that justifies the extra time involved. I am a perfectionist, and moreover patient, so the extra time would not worry me. But I would only do it if in fact I could detect the improvement in quality -- which I can't. Maybe I need new glasses...!!

[weaver]

Hi Ken

thank you.

Just some notes to this question - do not need to be answered.

1. We know that in MPEG there is no improvement of the quality, this means no one can make anything better as it is.
2. For that reason to 70% can be only a quality reduction, and the 100% can be just a 1:1 copy. (no improvement)
3. I can accept the explanation only for tricks and other similar things when we change the picture content. This means when I mix two pictures or add titles the convertor really needs to recalculate each block/macroblock contents and compression, so the improvement or degration of the picture would be possible only at such scenes.

Thank you, anyway.

[Ken Berry]

1. We (you and I) DON'T know there is no improvement in quality. It is just that I, at least, cannot see any improvement in quality that others claim is there. I can certainly see an improvement when I use, for instance, dual scan. But not with this.

2. I think Ulead, and now Corel, have done the wrong thing by calling the default setting 70%. Instead, I think they should have called it 100% or just '100' without the percent sign. It would then be like the volume control which by default is set to 100 as the median volume, but it can be raised considerably above 100 and down to 0. In a similar way, 100% on that slider would, for most users, represent the best quality they can achieve in a reasonable time, but those who want to get minute improvements in quality can raise it above 100...